Invitation to the UniCTF Project

I gotta say I got mixed feelings with this. I absolutely agree with the points made in that into document: ppl don't play CTF because they hate that weird hook and don't know/like the maps. Some simply like CA or tourney more I guess but you got a point there.

On the other hand I have my doubts whether you'll be able to attract players by using maps they know, mirroring them and declaring them CTF maps.

I'm not a CTF expert but I've build a few maps and I know a bit about layouts. The first map I looked at, the drawing of 'Too Edgie', is a very bad CTF layout imo. No central room that the enemy FC has to pass, lower passage isolated from the rest, very long LOS on the upper level through that cut in the center of the map. Sure, we can work on that and improve it. But I doubt that turning great DM/TDM maps into CTF maps will give you great CTF maps.

Don't get me wrong, I like the general idea. I'd even be willing to build a map. But they may need some adjustments and the problem is either (a) we change a lot (=> players won't know them just because they know the DM map) or (b) we don't (they won't play too well in CTF).

Maybe it's worth a try (and ppl will feel at home due to the textures and some map elements even if other things have changed). When in doubt I'd pick route (a) though.

Lots of things touched. Let me handle them.

spirit
Your vision of CTF is proper, but if proper thinking is necessary? I've played "couple" of times in my mind on this maps. In my opinion most of them will be like ffa CTF with general map rules that should be carry out to provide good gameplay. This maps weren't projected with classic rules of CTF layout. I do not even know them. Lets go into scenario (B) and lets be surprised by what can come our way. My point here is: bring a ctf spirit to the places we spend hundreds (thousands) of hours to get a feeling of zenith ;] Changes on the maps layout will be like a splinter in mentality.

Thank You for a little declarations of participation!

peeweerota:
Mirror word isn't quite proper (cause its not mirrored in fact) and makes me dizzy because of ddm1.bsp - True mirrored doubled The Edge with a quad in connected water and RA. On this map, which in my opinion is affected, will took place an all star game of biggest national league in Europe (and its not the first time).
q2scene.net/ds/index.php?op=dd1&id=1096226623
www.deaconstomb.org/pub/q2/maps/ddm1.zip

Your idea of preparing 1 map for every dm map is nice, and noble, but i will rather follow an idea to create 8 versions of The Edge just to get people together on server keeping in mind those facts:

q2scene.net/edge/ - imagine that this league have put a shadow on outstanding EDL now!
50% of all pickups games took places on dm1.

Mirroring as a scar:
Your idea of unbalanced maps took me to another dimension for a while.. but I try to be realistic. Making maps that I've come up with is a way simple then creating maps from unclear right now idea and from the very bases.

Argument that people could get confuse because of same textures can be abandon by using red and blue line lights at the edges of walls, marks of ctf, banners, etc. In front of every spawn can be a little red/blue team logo f.e.

Another stuff:
Too Edgy or Too Edgie is proper phrase?
What FC and LOS means?

Leave an opinion like You do of q2uctf1 of other maps on backboards. It's important to create a movement there despite of crucial conversation here.

Thats promising!

Any other of You would like to participate? Come on! ;] Try to think of it as a new live stage of q2 in which You can figure as an creator.

I always do a little mental tribute when I see in the console phrases like:

Chastity Belt by Jalisko or Mortal Coil by Retinal

to the authors of this masterpieces.

If its not worth an effort, what does?
Regards

You can do it here. No other mapmakers scene is in. Also make a note on specified backboard. Unfortunately there is no crazy buzz around.

"And could you link me to the map sources of those maps so I can have a closer look at some stuff?"
What You mean by that? What map source is? What kind of stuff You would like to look at?

"Were they published under the GPL like the Q1 maps?"
I spent some time googling it to not to be incompetent but can't say that q2 genuine maps are under GPL (!!)

TBH Your question has shocked me in view of tons of q2dm1 remakes.

-------------------------
edit:
found this in QII License Information:

2. THE SIMPLE RULES REGARDING THE SALE OF USER DEVELOPED QUAKE II LEVELS AND/OR UTILITIES:

-- User-developed/user-modified maps & utilities can only work with the full version of Quake II. (Just to be crystal clear on this point: user-developed/user-modified maps & utilities cannot work with the demo or any version of Quake II other than the full version.)

-- Maps/utilities that are made for Quake II cannot be rented, sold or commercially exploited by any other means. The full version Limited Use Software License Agreement will give you the limited right to develop maps/utilities that use id data. This limited right does not include the right for anyone to sell anything that includes id data or any other id property.

I think that you find that kind of a mentality a lot at func msgboard but not nearly as much in the q2 community. There are probably a hundred remakes of q2dm1, many of them using a decompile of it.

On top of that, there are remakes of q2dm1 in BOTH expansions. On top of that more than half of the official CTF levels are based on single player maps.

(and don't even get started on aerowalk)

It's not unusual in this community to hack apart someone elses map and add to it. It is unusual to call it your own. Just be careful how you credit it and most people won't make a big thing about it being hacked together.


As for using decompiled maps, the end product is salvageable and considering the advanced architecture in many maps, it is usually easier than starting from scratch. You'll just have a lot of realignments, relighting, and retexturing. I think any volume brushes (like water and clipping) always get FUBAR'd. Most moving parts will probably have to get recreated too. But from what I understand, lighting is he biggest issue.

Hehe, as I said: ppl at id are pretty cool. I once emailed Carmack about using the gauntlet logo from q3a for some textures and he replied within a few hours and said it was fine.

I'll run through the maps and try to come up with some ideas soon. Not this weekend though, we're giving a party here today.