1st Place: marics105 by Maric

[X7[Q2C]]

Got Fuel? - by Maric

q2c.tastyspleen.net/maps/con_6/marics105.zip
q2c.tastyspleen.net/maps/con_6/marics105.txt

Judge by	Map Creator	Filename of bsp	Original or Revision	Texturing	Originality	Game Play	Weapon/Item/Health layout	Extras (jump pads, etc)	Lighting	Sounds	Connectivity/ Flow	Technical Rating	Total Score
kold	Maric	marics105.bsp	Original	8.00	8.50	7.50	7.00	7.00	7.50	8.50	7.00	8.50	69.50
Paril	Maric	marics105.bsp	Original	10.00	10.00	8.00	9.00	7.00	8.00	10.00	9.00	7.00	78.00

kold

Marics maps - Good to see Maric come out of the retirement to offer the Quake 2 community some more fun fresh maps
to frag on. marics105 was something different..... Nice work with the sounds! Maybe a little distracting during game play
tho :-)
Loved the spaceships, but seriously! They aren’t eco friendly (not with today’s fuel crisis....) I had to deduct 20 points
because of that.
marics106 - was quite a solid map, had a lot of fun playing that.
marics107 - I didnt have as much fun on this as the others :(, felt too vertical and cramped for me.
Sorry for the short and brief comments for your maps but you already know what i think of your other work. It was great to
see you out and about again, hopefully not for the last time! :)

Paril

Subjective Observation (What did you think of it?):
Wow
[Comments]
Speechless. Maric delivered, like all of his other maps, but this one is still very original. Where does he get his
ideas?! I was very impressed by this map. It even had music, which fit VERY well with the map's theme. Falling
off edges into death-slime/void was annoying at times during deathmatch and it's lighting is quite dark for default
settings, but the gameplay was still clear and delivered perfectly.

[jaydolan]

Sorry, you guys got this wrong. Both Spirit and Jester's maps blow this one out of the water. The lighting was honestly quite bad. The layout would fail terribly at 1v1 or team dm, and come on, non-default gravity? If this is the best you guys can do at scoring these levels, please pick some new judges for the next competition.

[Derimok]

Oct 6, 2008 20:31:57 GMT -5 jaydolan said:

Sorry, you guys got this wrong. Both Spirit and Jester's maps blow this one out of the water. The lighting was honestly quite bad. The layout would fail terribly at 1v1 or team dm, and come on, non-default gravity? If this is the best you guys can do at scoring these levels, please pick some new judges for the next competition.

Thats being a bit bold...

I think my scores were right on target, placing jesters map 1st & spirits map 2nd, with this map in fourth place or something, I can't remember off top of my head.

My scoring could of been better, but I think I placed the maps all in the correct positions.

I do agree with what you said, (no affence Maric) but this map shouldn't have won.

And the fact there were only two judges - well, made it unfair.....

[jaydolan]

That's a good point. Perhaps at least a couple more judges would have produced a more accurate outcome.

I suppose my initial reply was a bit charged because I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to spend the weeks of time required to produce a level only to see it robbed of its deserving place.

[Paril]

I waited a few weeks more for more judges to submit, but we had nothing else to do. I do agree that this map probably wouldn't of been directly in first. Two judges is an unfair outcome and I told X7 this, but we just couldn't wait any longer.

-Paril

[m]

Oct 7, 2008 15:22:03 GMT -5 Derimok said:

Oct 6, 2008 20:31:57 GMT -5 jaydolan said:

Sorry, you guys got this wrong. Both Spirit and Jester's maps blow this one out of the water. The lighting was honestly quite bad. The layout would fail terribly at 1v1 or team dm, and come on, non-default gravity? If this is the best you guys can do at scoring these levels, please pick some new judges for the next competition.

Thats being a bit bold...

I think my scores were right on target, placing jesters map 1st & spirits map 2nd, with this map in fourth place or something, I can't remember off top of my head.

My scoring could of been better, but I think I placed the maps all in the correct positions.

I do agree with what you said, (no affence Maric) but this map shouldn't have won.

And the fact there were only two judges - well, made it unfair.....

Kold my brutha'...no offense taken.

Having scores from only two judges absolutely calls into question the end results. BUT that does not in any way diminish the work that went into the whole dealio by Kold, Paril, X7 and company. They were/are in a tough position and quite frankly what kind of pleasure do you think I could derive from this outcome? This exact sort of situation is why I usually avoid contests (or did in the past with a few exceptions) of all kinds.

I've stated on numerous occasions that in my opinion, Jester is the best and most consistent Q2 mapper, Musashi is a close second. I'm not even in the running. I've always focused on what I wanted to make, the outcome, the gimmick, the 'whatever' I had in mind and never worried about how others (mostly, and again with a few exceptions) thought about the end product. I don't have the desire, patience or skill-set to make a MuJestersashi style of map...and I am happy with that. My good ol' pal Dirty Harry said it all with "A man has to know his limitations..."

Take a look in the read me that shipped with this one, I called it a 'theme map'. It was never intended to be anything more than that. I was actually of the opinion that 'Into The Dark' was the best of my lot but then I've always been partial to void/space maps and good at temporal bouts of self-delusion.


And to jaydolan, take it easy there fire-breather. I have a book recommendation for you www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0091906814/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223428988&sr=8-1

[m]

Oh and jayD...I done smote your karma for making me cry in my milk

[jaydolan]

I already qualified my initial post with a followup and concession to Kold's point. And your map is not bad, but it sounds like the consensus is that it's not the deserving winner, either. So what's the problem with me calling out what was begging to be said?

At any rate, in the future if only a couple or few of judges are available for a contest, maybe you guys should do a "calibration round" of scoring, and then sync up with each other to make sure the published scores reflect a consensus.

[Wixen1 [Q2C]]

[/quote]

I have a book recommendation for you www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0091906814/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223428988&sr=8-1
[/quote]
Woot..man, I read that book in danish when I was 18, almost 32 years ago..

I too think the result would be different if more judges had finished their voting.
I just did another kind of calculating judges vote, just for fun:

....................Judge1................Judge 2

Spirit...........2. place...............2. place...............total 4
Maric105......1. place...............3. place...............total 4
Jester..........4. place...............1. place...............total 5
Maric106......3. place...............4. place...............total 7
Then you will have two first places...

My personel voting would have been:
1. place = Spirit.
2. place = Jester.
3. place = Maric105
4. place = X7

Man..Am I in for some trouble now...


-W1

[peeweerota]

Oct 7, 2008 23:20:17 GMT -5 jaydolan said:

I already qualified my initial post with a followup and concession to Kold's point. And your map is not bad, but it sounds like the consensus is that it's not the deserving winner, either. So what's the problem with me calling out what was begging to be said?

In my own opinion 106 was better than 105, however it's still a bit rude to assume that only time for specific mappers matters. Yeah spirit's and Jester's maps looked pretty, but they had game play less than that of plattyv2. There comes a time when you have to acknowledge that you play a game for fun. Yes, I will concede that mapping is an art form, but you can't accept only 1 aspect of art and reject the rest. Jester and Spirit painted a pretty picture but Maric made some sweet architechture. If you judge a building the same way you've judged a painting then you're not giving that building a fair shake.

More judges would have reflected this, but I do have to say that I downloaded the latest q2w client. While the engine is sweet, the disproportionate focus on mappers who simply paint a pretty picture has resulted in a large collection of dull maps. Yet while Aq2, DDAY, and Gloom have focused solely on game play in maps, they have all amassed a wide variety of maps amazing in every aspect.

So I would support the current decision because maric has nailed down gameplay. Although, once again, I argue that the wrong map won, it still is hands down a maric win in my opinion.

[SkiesOfBordom]

First of all, spirit's map actually wasnt that good. Very choppy, alot of texture mistakes, and quite frankly, the textures just sucked. However!, I did like the layout of his map.

I apologize for not getting in my scores, I have been very busy (more than I thought) with school, and just trying to adjust to my new life schedule.

Now, with that being said. I do belive Jester should have gotten first. There were very few mistakes, and overall just looked very clean , yet very sophisticated. Does he work for a game company??? seems like it...

Anyway, Maric, I thought your maps were terriffic and would have placed you second. Other than the lighting issue, your map layout is good. Great use of textures and dev brushes. 105 (this thread topic) was the best.

Oh, and in mapping, Lighting comes first because it sets the mood. SO, a hint to all mappers: choose your lighting wisely. I was very disapointed with all the mappers (maybe except x7) because the lighting was very poor (no lighting or very dark); even jester.

jaydolan : Being Arrogent and rude doesnt help you make friends, nor gain respect for your posts. I suggest you read that book maric posted. ....... Tho, I am glad you corrected yourself through another post.

Speaking of which, why is my warning level at 1%??

[jaydolan]

Oct 8, 2008 6:10:18 GMT -5 peeweerota said:

In my own opinion 106 was better than 105, however it's still a bit rude to assume that only time for specific mappers matters. Yeah spirit's and Jester's maps looked pretty, but they had game play less than that of plattyv2. There comes a time when you have to acknowledge that you play a game for fun. Yes, I will concede that mapping is an art form, but you can't accept only 1 aspect of art and reject the rest. Jester and Spirit painted a pretty picture but Maric made some sweet architechture. If you judge a building the same way you've judged a painting then you're not giving that building a fair shake.

You have to be kidding me. I happen to know full well that Spirit's level underwent about 6 private betas to nail down gameplay. I remember running around on the 2 different boxout cuts of that map before it ever had a single texture applied to it. The map plays superbly in 1v1; flow and balance were his first priorities with this level. Gameplay issues? Maric's map is a space floater sewn together with lots of catwalks and non-default gravity. Now, I can see that being relatively fun on a newbie-friendly FFA server, but did you start playing Quake yesterday?

Oct 8, 2008 6:10:18 GMT -5 peeweerota said:

More judges would have reflected this, but I do have to say that I downloaded the latest q2w client. While the engine is sweet, the disproportionate focus on mappers who simply paint a pretty picture has resulted in a large collection of dull maps. Yet while Aq2, DDAY, and Gloom have focused solely on game play in maps, they have all amassed a wide variety of maps amazing in every aspect.

Since when is this thread about Quake2World? And you either only tried a subset of levels (which, by the way, are subject to change), or you have no clue what makes a level play well (your prior comments seem to support this hypothesis, but I'd still like to give you the benefit of the doubt).

Stress Fractures by Jester
Torn Glory by Cardo
dm2, dm4, and dm6 from Quake
Catfight
Aggressor

..Yea, clearly all of those are just pretty pictures

The fact of the matter is that Q2W's focus has always been on gameplay since day 1. The collection of assets in our Subversion is constantly changing, and it'd be naive to assume that every map ever contributed or attempted will be bundled in the 1.0 release.

SkiesOfBoredom ~ So.. it's perfectly acceptable for you to be arrogant and rude, but it's detrimental to me? To be perfectly honest, I'm not really concerned with gaining respect or making friends at the cost of censoring myself. My initial post was rather pointed, but the overall message was valid.

[j3st3r]

Gameplay less than plattyv2? Everyone has an opinion like everyone has an asshole. Congrats to you Maric, well done.

[peeweerota]

To respond to Jay Dolan and Jester at the same time,

Jstress actually is a great map. Makes great play on TS's mutant. It's significantly versatile for any number of players, teamplay, or ffa. However as you mentioned earlier, Jester is not mapping for q2w yet. Same goes for remakes of existing quake 1 levels. Would you accept a remake of edge and take the credit? So they should be obviously excluded from my comments.

What I don't understand is how you dislike maric using a non standard gravity, yet you ignore the blatant clipping ramps on boxes in spirit's map that effectively break movement and are not consistent throughout the map. Some boxes have them, some do not. Also the extreme amount of detail that would have added significantly to game play if it were not blocked by clipping is astonishing. On TS we played several times with quite a few players that primarily use the rail gun yet only once did anyone actually bother to pick up the weapon, which is an indication of at least one badly placed item.

At best the game play was a dumbed down version of another map that I do not currently remember. (I'll get the name and file when i get home.) Although I do not think this was blatant, it does show that vanity overshadowed originality or even taking chances. Maric took a chance with every single one of his entries, as he always does. I think that each chance he took paid off big time. Spirit made yet another endless corridor map with basically a single rocket area. It took advantage of no real quake 2 features such as ramp jumps, double jumps, or rocket jumps. At the vary least marics took advantage of a feature of quake 2, a change of gravity.(as well as several ramp jumps, rocket jumps, and a few unintentionally fun double jumps) Spirit's map would port directly to quake 3 with no change in game play. The question is, is that a good or bad thing?

[j3st3r]

Congrats on the great response but how does this answer gameplay on my map? Not trying to be an ass here, would just like the opinion of someone who apparently plays alot of ffa in q2. Maybe then I can get it right next time.