Contest 10 Mapping Results

[Null]

You can now download all the maps from this link:
leray.proboards.com/thread/3686/contest-10-map-bundle

[NIN-Kitsune]

*Summons Shambler in Nulls server, waiting in ambush to turn him into a flaming rodent!* You're going to get it for this Null! *Never fell for an April fools before like this*

Any case, congratulations to everyone involved! like said before, everyone wins here in the end for helping keep Quake 2 fresh! I am also pleasantly surprised how well things came out on my end too despite the shortcomings my map had due to lack of clear planning and last minute time pressure combined. The final two weeks were where most of things really began to take off due to finally being able to put off IRL issues, in the end I am very happy with what I pulled off and look forward to hearing how some aspects could be improved! As I make future featured maps, I'll definitely be taking the feedback and lessons from this contest to heart and create with better planning, and have truly begun to know most of the tricks and techniques of my editor!

And speaking of that I lastly must extend great thanks to kristian duske for making the awesome TrenchBroom 2 editor which has full native support of Quake 2, albeit beta status still I think. It was the reason I was able to pull off what I did at all, I couldn't have gotten into mapping like I did here without such an intuitive, easy to use fully 3D editor that is completely compatible to the way I think and work!

Long live Quake 2, and the art of Quake 2 mapping! =^.^=

[newash]

I will try to prepare proper feedback with some kind of review in 2 days.

[Mikemc]

Congratulations to all the participants.
I knew my scores were going to be way off

[WizardExt]

I played through all the maps. Sooo many maps we have created, fantastic! I got really inspired from playing them, not only the best ones, but also the less good ones. In many cases it's just a matter of the map not being designed with deathmatch in mind, having rough design and connectivity. But it's been a blast, not only playing through all the maps... but also being a part of this contest. Taking part of discussions, seeing the progress. It's a nice environment to be in. Thankful to have been invited, I had fun! 

Anyway, playing through all the maps, I wrote down some comments and feedback.. and also my personal scoring for them. Enjoy! 

(sorry if there are errors.. it took a while to do this.)


spirit2dm9 (my score: 8/10)
Nice small map. Quake Live feel to it. High quality. Some breaks in connectivity/flow/design in some areas. Lighting could be a bit better, more interesting. Great job!

Suggestions: Fix odd design flows. Fix brush errors and texture misalignments.


omf (my score: 9/10)
Wow, this map is awesome. Very professional. Competitive map. Good overall theme, good flow and connectivity. Really well done map, my favorite.

Suggestions: Create stronger sub-themes/locations within the map. Maybe change the textures to only be slime/toxic on the bottom level? Make different lighting for exterior and interiors. Or even further; Natural light, exterior base light, interior base light. The theme strongly suggests the use of pipes, maybe integrate them in a way without causing any impact on gameplay? Add objects or height difference to the skyline, to create a sense of depth.


spirit2dm3 (my score: 7/10)
Nice architecture, some really nice details in areas. Lighting is too bright, almost the sense of being fullbright in areas. The flow is a bit off, didn't feel I could go where I wanted to go, stuck in corridors, long ladders.

Suggestions: Adjust the lighting a bit. Create a better flow, connectivity.


peacefrag (my score: 7/10)
Good map! Very good architecture, nice attention to detail. Visually very noisy, mainly because of the textures (grating on floor and yellow stripe). Too many colors all the time, same problem as with the noisy textures, but also the addition of not feeling coherent. Nice connectivity, but had a hard time maintaining good flow. Often getting stuck. At times feeling claustrophobic.

Suggestions: Use the same brown stair-texture on all stairs, really nice texture. Replace the grating texture you use for floor, replace with a concrete or metal texture that is less noisy. Use of less colors when it comes to lighting; the shafts that only use blue light look great, same with window insets where there is red, and my favorite - the bottom area where you use blue and yellow looks awesome. Use shaft-propeller below the gameplay area, not having the player avoiding it. And have them kill the player. Move the bottom teleporters elsewhere.


highlandcastle_b3 (my score: 4/10)
Awesome theme. Visually very promising. Environment sky goes well with the map. The theme is strong and there are some sub-theme/locations; Quad-cliff, Large bell, Water cave, Castle town. Good sense of scale also. But this map doesn't play well, a lot of dead ends. Hard to understand where I could go. Bad connectivity and a lot of dead ends. Feels rough in some areas.

Suggestions: Keep working on this one. It definitely has promise, in many areas. Maybe size it down, so you can make for better connectivity and give it the amount of polish it needs and deserves.


giftdm6 (my score: 6/10)
Nice oldschool feel! The map has somewhat nice connectivity, and flows fairly well. But has some rough areas. Underground area is nice and interesting, but could have been better designed. Feels awkward moving around there.

Suggestions: Remove some of the open/close doors and elevators. Put some more work in the undeground area, making it feel better to navigate. Make small adjustments in areas to make better flow.


margaal27 (my score: 6/10)
Really nice theme! Overall well built. Flow can be better. Underneath the darkness, I see some interesting lighting.

Suggestions: Too dark. Use less sloped terrain. Clean up a bit, remove obstacles that block player movement. Have a timer on the squeeking bird sound, very tiresome sound to hear constantly. I don't like the propeller-water-jumppad.


kitsune_moon_base (my score: 3/10)
I love the creativity in this map, great job! Cool theme. Teleportation room is very confusing, took me a while to connect the map in my head. Also with the identical side-corridors with trains. Some really stressful environments, mainly the middle-room with the floor/ceiling using scrolling textures.

Suggestions:
Remove the isolated teleportation room. Make the middle room smaller. This will connect the map better and make side-corridors shorter. Remove the scrolling texture from the floor and ceiling of the middle room, instead use more pillars that has the same theme. In the middle room, have the ceiling show the sky. Make a difference between the side-corridors; only one of them using the train theme. The other one can be indoor corridor or outdoor. Different.


fedm1 (my score: 6/10)
Well built map. Looks good, high quality. The theme could be stronger. Also the case with areas of the map, they could use stronger themes/character as well to help pin-point where you are. Nice lighting happening in bottom area with the toxic green slime, the white interior lighting and the yellow environment lighting. But I feel lighting can be better, I get a sense of full bright.

Suggestions: Make for a stronger theme and sub-themes. Improve lighting, make for different lighting in areas; bottom, side rooms and so on. Remove some of the awkward design with elevators going up to where there is a hole in the ground. Remove or adjust placement of ladders, especially those mounted on the side. Make more room for navigation in bottom toxic area.


margaal28 (my score: 5/10)
Nice architecture. Visually very interesting. Nice use of sounds. I got stuck a lot, hard to keep momentum moving around. Sometimes got lost.

Suggestions: Too dark. Clean up a bit, make it easier moving around. Create stronger sub-themes. Remove the teleporters. Move the jumppad so it's not in the middle of the corridor.


margaal26 (my score: 5/10)
Interesting theme. Okay connectivity, not the best flow. Really like the grenade launcher pocket area. And the Super Shotgun area with all the beams. Interesting use of wall ledges. Elevator feels out of place.

Suggestions: Too dark. Make for better flow. Remove elevator.


2cocedm01 (my score: 2/10)
Frustrating gameplay. Beams, elevators, isolated areas, maze-like at times. Feels singleplayer more than deathmatch. In some weird way though.. I got inspired. It's well built, just not suited for deathmatch.

Suggestions: Too dark. Connect areas better, don't have them completely separated. Remove beams.


henneckq2dm3 (my score: 3/10)
This map is a little bit all over the place, in all areas. Not a very strong theme, or design. Awkward connectivity. Some visually very nice areas, while other areas felt very rough.

Suggestions: Decide on a theme and design, and make it strong. Improve the connectivity, make sure it feels good to move around the map, not getting stuck or feeling that things connect weirdly. Improve the rough areas.


sierra (my score: 3/10)
Unique theme, very interesting. Good job! I like the look of it, nice sky. But it plays a bad. Dead ends and lack of connections.

Suggestions: Too dark. Improve connectivity and flow. Make for higher fall before death. Keep working on this one, interesting.


krsdm1 (my score: 3/10)
Nice theme, space to move. Design makes it hard to move around in a good way. Some dead ends. Fall damage very often.

Suggestions: Improve connectivity, easier to get up and down. Lower each level so you don't take damage dropping down. The bottom room feels over-sized. Have the lighting match the sky.


thf_hopeless (my score: 3/10)
Cool theme. Some really nice areas, shows potential. Not well suited for deathmatch. Ventilation system, long periods crouching. Rough lighting, rough texture work in some areas; over-sized textures or stretched textures. Dead ends.

Suggestions: Make better connectivity. Make shorter ventilation or larger; so you crouch for shorter period of time or can move freely. Improve lighting. Fix some of the texture errors.


face3face (my score: 3/10)
Nice design, well built, sense of scale, attention to detail. But very hard to move around, there is no space to move. Getting stuck a lot and unable to strafe jump. Confusing with the identical rooms.

Suggestions: Too bright. Make the areas different, make more room for moving. Some more open areas.


2cocedm02 (my score: 1/10)
Doesn't look bad.. but so confusing. Like OMG!

Suggestions: I don't know. I felt as if I was tripping when playing this one.


ironrose (my score: 4/10)
Looks great. Reminds me of a level in the recent Wolfenstein game. Cool! Getting stuck a lot and didn't like the use of water. This map must be chaos playing?

Suggestions: Remove the weapon racks, getting stuck in those all the time. Make for higher covers. Remove the use of water.


trncmp (my score: 1/10)
Nice architecture, well built map. But buggy? Entities popped in and out for me. I had no idea what to do in this map, how to play it. Frustrating with the amount of entities picked up all the time.

Suggestions: Too bright. Problem with entities? I didn't understand it fully to give proper feedback.


mnhdmhighone (my score: 2/10)
Weird theme, just shapes, bad lighting... visually not good. But I see potential in this map.

Suggestions: Too dark. Turn it into a parking garage. Have each floor with a unique number/coloring of its pillars; showing what floor you are on. Have the lowest floor being semi-flooded (swimming gameplay sucks). So maybe if needed, just a pocket or the floor beneath being completely flooded. Have the highest floor with the sky above and the floor beneath with openings on the sides out to the sky. The entry floor and below to have closed walls. So.. parking garage. Go go!

[Null]

WizardExt!
Thanks for being the first to submit map feedback, I really appreciate it.
I wanted to allow everyone a little R&R and our judges to get a few days of well deserved rest, in order to compose their thoughts.

I now encourage everyone to share your feedback, let it fly, now that you had a chance to play through all the maps! Don't hold anything back, we want it all! And we could use it now... because we are the champions
Judges, we could once again use your feedback this time in word form. Above you even have a sensible guide how it should look. Note: You do not actually need to include a rating.

I'll be creating a picture preview thread in the near future with all the maps, where I'll quote and compile all the feedback that was receive here from various sources.
We want to get a full and balanced perspective of all the maps, and how we can help the mappers who created them improve in the future. Moving forward means a lot to us and the mappers.

Thank you!

[thehappyfriar]

Apr 3, 2015 11:07:10 GMT -5 WizardExt said:

thf_hopeless (my score: 3/10)
Cool theme. Some really nice areas, shows potential. Not well suited for deathmatch. Ventilation system, long periods crouching. Rough lighting, rough texture work in some areas; over-sized textures or stretched textures. Dead ends.

Suggestions: Make better connectivity. Make shorter ventilation or larger; so you crouch for shorter period of time or can move freely. Improve lighting. Fix some of the texture errors.

Thanks for the feedback. Which particular areas did you like? Sadly, my original idea for a map stank so I came up with this ~1 week or so before the original deadline. I didn't have time to add rooms to the vent system or fix most of the texture errors (forgot to lock the texture when I would move brushes around! Oopes!). Also, specific feedback on the lighting would be appreciated. This is my first Q2 map where I only used texture lighting so I was trying to learn how it works and intentionally wanted it darker then most maps I've seen.

I originally had a spawn system setup where the players would spawn in separate rooms from each other, choose a weapon, then teleport to another room & pick up armor/health/whatever, then randomly teleport to to a spawn point in the map. I completely messed up the entity links and two hours before the contest ended places weapons & spawn points. So, originally, each player would have one weapon when entering the map & only get new weapons by picking them up from dead players.

Those three things are what I plan to do in the next release or two.

[WizardExt]

thehappyfriar, you are welcome! I really liked the outdoor area, it gives space to move around and is a good contrast to both indoor and smaller areas. Also shows the exterior walls of the base. I like the themed rooms - bed room, loading bay. They make for a theme, telling a story, making the map believable. I think the vent system is the weak point of the map and should be removed or much less incorporated, maybe between rooms; feeling sneaky/smart. It's placement is not the best, openings in the corridor floor. I found myself falling into it many times, creating frustration. The corridor is also a problem, getting stuck a lot on the sides. Use clip-textured brushes to remove this issue. On the outdoor area, put a ground texture on the ground.

Overall, for this map, I would make for better layout. Right now, everything is separated from each other. Rooms creating dead ends. Suggestion: Make the base the center of the map. Remove the vent systems. Make shorter corridor. Have the base connect to the outdoor area, like it does.. but from all sides. The outdoor area will surround the whole base.

For the lighting. It's very washed in areas where the sky light is impacting. Use and look into ArghRad tools and what it can do;
ArghRad Manual: anachrodox.disinterest.org/anachroradiant/arghrad3manual/index.html

In general, make a difference in lighting indoor vs outdoor. The difference right now is very subtle. You can also use lighting to create a certain mood or just use it as a way of giving an area uniqueness.

Good job, keep iterating it.

[jitspoe]

So how many of the judges found the secret BFG in my map? ;D

[Mikemc]

Was it in the center of the lava platform? I found 3 paths to get to it:
- Jump across at the last moment
- Pathway through the rock
- Drop down from the Super Health

[jitspoe]

Different map. I should have specified: highlandcastle_b3.

[Null]

Apr 2, 2015 17:56:30 GMT -5 Mikemc said:

I knew my scores were going to be way off

You weren't kidding

[Pan]

Nice going guys, some sexy maps in the mix. Finally got around to sitting down for the fun part and checking out all the maps. I sure had a good time. Even after all these years it still surprises me how we all have different styles of mapping and different views on what we think looks cool and is fun to play.

It also reconfirms that designing a map that feels right will always come down to finding the right balance between what looks cool and what works best for the game(mod) you map for. For example during my own map process there were a couple of instances where I had to choose "common sense" over visuals. I had made a sick looking circular staircase but it just didn't want to fit with the rest of the map and there also really was no need for it so I decided to take it out. As much as I love trying to be original and go for a bit more "wow" factor usually, I really wanted to keep it small and put the emphasis on gameplay this time and on what I know works in q2.
That said, I think it certainly helps if a mapper has enough experience in the game he maps for (and playing it online!) so that it becomes easier to avoid the known pitfalls and common mistakes. But even then there will always be things that could have been done differently or better in your map, that's just how it is. In my opinion some maps unfortunately had an unfinished feel to them which I'm sure had to do with time pressure, but overall I saw some sweet old q2 lovin', cheers guys!

(edit: found your BFG jitspoe but I had to look for it in the .bsp file. Hehe, a trigger with a target_spawner somewhere high, tsk tsk no fair!)

[JohnnyDean]

WizardExt, thanks for the feedback, I've been looking forward to that!!!

face3face was an old map, originally 1 on 1, wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit small!!! And I really have a thing for symmetry, so no wonder you (and probably everyone else) got lost :-P
I wonder if anyone found MY hidden BFG and the body armors...

ironrose is a really new design, tried to make it as nice as possible. Now I know about those weapon racks, but I just couldn't bring myself to delete them!!! (but that's it though, now that I used them there I don't need to use them again!!!)
And it might be a little cramped as well, specially the water part, as you pointed out. No secrets there, except that megahealth right under the quad.

trncmp was an old map as well (but not older than face3face, I think). The original idea was having two separate levels (for some reason I can no longer hope to remember). I had no problems loading the entities, as long as I played in KMQuake2. I tried in good old Quake 2 and it did go straight crazy though. Way too many entities, all at the same time because of the large open area. I am working on that too.

Thanks again for the feedback!!!

[fifthelephant]

Well if I can take away any victory from this it's that I got 4th in gameplay and 1st in lighting. I thought I'd end up faring better but I guess not. I think the top 4 maps are pretty much right, though I think I prefer Pan's map overall (I have a soft spot for the slime metal texture set and the lighting is good on that map too).

I will put in a much better effort next time. I did start making another map for the contest but RL stuff got in the way, so I might finish that off too.