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Post by marscaleb on Jun 18, 2017 3:26:06 GMT -5
I've poked around with a couple different map editors for Quake 2, and there's nothing that I'm *quite* satisfied with. I'd like to find something that can better streamline my process.
To that end, I've got a couple (somewhat vague) questions.
First of all, is there a map editor that works like Unreal Ed? Constantly building everything with strictly additive brushes bugs me, and I would really like it if I could use an editor that lets me work like I did with Unreal. For those unfamiliar, Unreal uses additive and subtraction brushes. You could create one large block, and then carve out the space inside to make your levels by adding what effectively "negative" brushes that cut out geometry, and when needed add some "positive" brushes to fill space. Especially for a game that can't have leaks in the geometry, it seems really absurd that I can't build this way.
Second of all, are there any tools that can convert other files into Quake 2 maps? Right now I'm just kind of wondering about anything at all; I'm not too picky. I'll judge for myself if it is more efficient for me or not. Maybe something that can convert maps from Doom, or some other game. Hell if I could build my geometry in something like Maya and then convert it to a Quake 2 map.
And this last point isn't really on the same subject, but for such a simple thing I don't want to make a new thread. Where does Quake 2 store its palette data, and how can I edit it? I was poking around in the pak files with Slade but could not find it in there, and found nothing in the baseq2 directory. I found a colormap (which curiously seems to be off color for the correct palette) but not the actual palette data.
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Post by grieve[Q2C] on Jun 18, 2017 4:45:01 GMT -5
well, for the *negative brushes* - that's a feature Quark has.
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Post by cocerello on Jun 18, 2017 4:59:01 GMT -5
1. I don't know anything like that. You'll probably just have to get accustomed to it, or try Grieve's suggestion but Quark is one of the hardest to learn level editors out there, so be prepared. Also, carving is the worst thing one can do when working with brushwork (not for Unreal) and gives tons of problems, worst case it could force to delete half the map due to compiling and in-game errors. 2. There are some, but i don't care much about them, so i can't tell you in detail. - There is a paying one that can convert from Unreal to .bsp. I think that it was on Steam too. - Another one, free, to convert from Blender/3DStudio/... (.obj) to .bsp www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61207&start=138 . Used to make setpieces and models, mainly. 3. I get the palette from Wally, a program to work with Quake and Quake 2 textures, which you'll probably need.
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Post by marscaleb on Jun 18, 2017 13:18:36 GMT -5
try Grieve's suggestion but Quark is one of the hardest to learn level editors out there, so be prepared. I tried using Quark a couple months ago but it wouldn't even run properly on my modern computer, and all the pages and forums I found for it were out-dated. Also, carving is the worst thing one can do when working with brushwork (not for Unreal) and gives tons of problems, worst case it could force to delete half the map due to compiling and in-game errors. Really? Okay, conceptually I can imagine that it might require a custom BSP tool to calculate everything. Honestly it should be able to create the exact same final result, but someone would have needed to do a lot of work for that. Hmm, if it converts it directly to BSP, then I would need an additional tool that lets me edit the BSP data to add the lights and entities. Anyone seen such a tool? Any idea what that unreal to Quake converter was called? When I try to google it I just get results for the opposite direction. 3. I get the palette from Wally, a program to work with Quake and Quake 2 textures, which you'll probably need. I mean to edit the palette, not just view it. I've seen it already, but I will want to alter it for the project I am working on.
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Post by cocerello on Jun 19, 2017 5:46:54 GMT -5
Also, carving is the worst thing one can do when working with brushwork (not for Unreal) and gives tons of problems, worst case it could force to delete half the map due to compiling and in-game errors. Really? Okay, conceptually I can imagine that it might require a custom BSP tool to calculate everything. Honestly it should be able to create the exact same final result, but someone would have needed to do a lot of work for that. Yeah, it's really bad. The problem is the splitting of the brushes created by the carving, as there cannot be concave brushes, only convex. They can go wrong in two ways: - Out of grid points, which can be found on the editor or not and will create leaks and all kind of problems, each one weirder than the previous, that can affect even to far away brushes, making hunting for the problem even harder, - Or a messy group of brushwork that the compiler can't handle, give performance problems or is hard to continue editing. Doing carving when working with brushwork is something everyone of us has done at our first maps thinking that it speeds up things but we end up fearing it and running from it like hell. Hmm, if it converts it directly to BSP, then I would need an additional tool that lets me edit the BSP data to add the lights and entities. Anyone seen such a tool? Any idea what that unreal to Quake converter was called? When I try to google it I just get results for the opposite direction. About the first, is probably not needed and the light data is put on the .obj already or while converting. Bsp editing is a pain, messy, and only a few programs can do that (quark for example). Go to the link i provided for details, and ask any doubts there. About the second, yeah it says is for converting to Unreal, i always thought it was for both directions. It's this one: forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?94470-HammUEr-a-Hammer-Worldcraft-map-importer-for-Unreal-Engine3. I get the palette from Wally, a program to work with Quake and Quake 2 textures, which you'll probably need. I mean to edit the palette, not just view it. I've seen it already, but I will want to alter it for the project I am working on. Any image editing program will do, it's what everyone of us uses to.
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Post by marscaleb on Jun 20, 2017 0:42:33 GMT -5
Any image editing program will do, it's what everyone of us uses to. Huh? Is the palette stored in each and every image or something?
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Post by marscaleb on Jun 21, 2017 12:52:42 GMT -5
Okay, I've been doing some research and I found what I was confused about. Quake 2 derives its palette from the one stored in colormap.pcx. And I thought the palette in that image was wrong because at the top of the colormap many of the colors turn white, losing all the definition that exists in the palette. I had assumed that the colormap did a straight normal-to-dark gradient like in Doom, but it actually gives a range that includes simulating "brighter than normal" colors, and I was looking at those bright colors thinking they were normal colors. I have now successfully changed the game's palette by swapping out colormap.pcx
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