question about QVIS3 or timvis3.

[kaos<p.o.w>]

hello all . im kinda new to all this mapping stuff. but i have a few questions about the QVIS3 or the timvis3 as it showes up in my console in QuArK.

1. what exactly is a visibility list?

2. where should it be in the build programs execution sequence?

3. how long should it take for it to complete.


im working on my second map. the first one i ran it through full bright. this one im wanting it to be kind of dark with lights in it. i ran the map first with just walls, floors, cielings , skies and lights. it took like 6 sec for the bsp. about 18 sec. for the QVIS3. and about 10 sec for the ARGHRAD.

since the first try ive added 24 spawn pads(total in the map) 11 trees 1 rock 1 deerstand and a hill i created. this is only one of the rooms in the map! bsp made in like 6 sec. , ARGHRAD in 134 sec. , and the QVIS3 ran for 14 hours and still wasn't done when the power blinked and pc shut down.

is it normal for the QVIS3 to take a long time to finish???


thanks for all the help and answers in advance...

[Whirlingdervish]

You should read this:
www.gamedesign.net/node/266

I will add that qvis CAN take a very long time on certain maps and you should always run it after qbsp and before the qrad/arghrad program that you have, when making the final compile of the map.
it helps to make sure you have a good copy of qvis, and to make sure that the map isn't too big or too detailed for q2 to work with.

try these tools to build with:
dervish.tastyspleen.net/files/buildutils.zip


The reason that vis takes a long time is usually that you have tried to build a fairly complex map with too much visibility between areas and/or lots of small delicate bits or lots of brushes that intersect with others and get "cut off" when qbsp does it's work.

the more complicated the map, the longer qvis can take. (more triangles that the calculations will have to work with = more time)
I've had it go for about 28 hours at the longest on a pentium 4 machine with plenty of ram.
that map has really poor performance for network play tho because of all the little triangles that it had to be cut into..

the best way to avoid too many triangles, that I have found, is to use the grid in your editor in units of 16 or so, and lock all your brushes corners to the points. this will make sure you never have brushes that stick into each other in the editor and have to get cut off and make weird extra triangles.

good luck with your map.


welcome to the cafe'

[kaos<p.o.w>]

my pc is a true intel D946GZis mobo with a pentium d 945 3.4 ghz. dual core prossesor. and im running 2 gig of 533 mhz. ddr2 in dual channel mode. is that good enough ?

[AAAGGHHH!!]

Hey kaooooooos! hoooowwwLLLL!

[grieve[Q2C]]

use the detail flag for small brushes which are only ornamental, kaos. if there are many of them this will make a huge difference.

you'll find some tutorials about vis-blocking and polygon reduction on gamedesign.net :

www.gamedesign.net/node/53

[Le Ray [Q2C]]

Welcome to the Cafe' kaos<p.o.w>!
Enjoy your stay. We are the best looking Clan on Earth. Just a great group of guys!

[Whirlingdervish]

PS: your computer should be plenty fast.

[Paril]

QVIS create two things that are essential in the Quake2 game DLL; PHS and PVS. PVS is Potentially Visible Sets, and is basically what the player can see when in a certain part of the map. Func_* do not count because they are calculated after the worldspawn. PHS is, I would assume, Potentially Hearable Sets, is basically where and when the player can hear certain sounds. Without running a vis, everything in every part of the level will be seeable by all players at all time. By seeable I mean they will be counted for in their view; they don't have to visually be able to see it to be able to see it. Hearable areas, same deal. Without vis everything that takes place on the map will be hearable no matter what. Network inefficient since temporary entities (explosions, rails) use the PVS and sometimes the PHS, so without vis they'd be created per every client in the game even if they can't see it.

-Paril

[kaos<p.o.w>]

can any tell me what this means???

fastvis = true
reading C:\Quake2\tmpQuArK\maps/dark.bsp
reading C:\Quake2\tmpQuArK\maps/dark.prt
3720 portalclusters
15774 numportals
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (58)
WARNING: leaf portals saw into leaf (98)
WARNING: leaf portals saw into leaf (1033)
WARNING: leaf portals saw into leaf (2216)
WARNING: leaf portals saw into leaf (2695)



************ ERROR ************
Vismap expansion overflow



i get this when i run the map im building with quick go in QuArK

[X7[Q2C]]

Don't use fastvis



vismap expansion overflow error...
your map is either very detailed or extremely large.


X7

[kaos<p.o.w>]

my map is large..lol.. i tried to run it just with the go and qvis ran for over40 hrs. and still wasnt done. and i only had 1 room in in it part of the way done.

what im doing is trying to redo my pow1 map. im adding lights and changing it around adding more trees and a few other things.

and yes. im verrrry new to mapping. pluss im no pc wiz by no means.

[Paril]

WARNING: leaf portals saw into leaf (98)

This is sort of weird, but this means a face of a wall saw itself. Probably because of a very complex drawing of the map that causes it to curve too much.

Quote from Pro.Victim:

Try compiling without -fast if you're using it; otherwise try to remake the area around the coordinates mentioned, paying special attention to any complex architechture and any brush junctions like this:



And from another site:

Basicly this comes from an area whose floor is not square enough, square floor areas never give this problem. Note: often if there is only one leaf saw leaf in a map level, it can be ignored. So before getting busy, see how your map plays!
Solutions to try when you have a lot of leaf saws, or problems from leaf saws:

1. VIS -full compiles were designed to help with this problem, so the FIRST thing to try is recompile with VIS -full and see if it goes away.
2. func wall any brushes within the coordinates given for the problem, this will simplify VIS in the area because func wall brushes are invisible for VIS.
3. Move walls in the area to make the floors more square.
4. Put a HINT brush across the trouble area. HINT brushes cut VIS leafnodes, so they will reshape the area and may fix the problem.
5. Finally just start ripping brushes out of the area.

Fixing Leaf saw error has also been known to fix other errors in later RAD, like
FindTransferOffsetPatchnum returned -1 looking for patch 1570 in patch 199's transfer lists and other problems.

[Whirlingdervish]

how detailed are these trees? can you provide a screenshot of a qbsp.exe only compile?
(fullbright)

[kaos<p.o.w>]

here are the trees im using







sorry about the water marks . i didn't have a tga converter.

[Paril]

use GIMP.

-Paril