About them damn hint brushes

[JohnnyDean]

First of all, hi to everyone!!! I just registered yesterday so I'm kinda new to the environment.
Anyway, I've been makin Q2 maps for a long time, but there are still a few things that I miss. My maps look great and everything, but the fps tend to drop dead. I believe that's where the hint brushes come in, but I really can't seem to figure out how to place them. I've checked a bunch of tutorials and none has given me a clue of their use...
Any help will be appreciated!!!!!

[Paril]

Hint brushes aren't really required. If I remember my mapping, you place them to give the VIS program a better idea of how your maps are split up room by room; I could be wrong though, so a map junkie like maric would have a better idea of this.

Are you running VIS/RAD? Chances are if you're not, the map will be slow.

-P

[JohnnyDean]

Hey, thanks for the reply!!! I am using Vis and Rad, but Vis in fast mode mostly. It takes 4+ hours for my map to compile using full vis.
About the hint brushes, I had the same idea you did, I used it pretty much to set limits between rooms, but it hasn't helped much...

[tmg]

I'll try my best to explain what I know about HINT brushes.

When making a map, HINT brushes are used to help VIS to make the map more efficiant when playing by reducing the amount of map space the engine can see, thus reducing R_SPEEDS.

I usually place hint brushes in arch ways and tunnels in between larger areas so each large area is confined more and runs with lower R_SPEEDS.

Also if you use area portals in doors they will further reduce R_SPEEDS again. I use area portal in all my doors and there are tutorials on both area portals and HINT brushes on the net.


btw rshark what are your system specs? 4+ hours sounds like a really long time for a map to take to compile. I have a VIS data size of 5150 and my new system compiles my map in 5 minutes - full vis, full rad.

I think maybe if you did use portals and hint brushes it would help reduce compile time somewhat, if not just make in more efficient.

[JohnnyDean]

My system specs shouldn't be a problem, I have a 2.53GHz AMD Phenom x3, 3.5Gs DDR2, 700Mb Ati Radeon HD3300.
Now visdatasize isn't quite what you have... My map has 396659 as visdatasize. Doesn't compress anything in fast vis, but last time it took 2 hours to reach 20% of the 2nd vis sweep.
Anyway, rad times aren't a problem. It takes something like 2 mins in extra, but the vis clearly kills the compilation.
I'll see about uploading a screenshot so you can see the map.

[JohnnyDean]

OK, here goes screenshot 1.
Problem is, this is just a part of what the whole map will be. I must keep compiling times down if I'm going to make the rest...

[tmg]

Surely you would be getting an overflow error with a VIS data size THAT big. I don't know. the VIS program can do weird things sometimes.

The map does look nice for what you've shown here I'd like to have a run around in that

I want to get better compile programs. pretty sure there's versions that support multi-core cpus which will speed things up even more. That might help everyone with compile times.

[JohnnyDean]

Thanks for that!!!!
About the visdatasize, I don't know either, it's not that big a map, maybe it has a lot of details...
Is there a way to work with faces not seen by the player? Some caulk or something for Quake 2?

[Deleted]

looks Big.....yeah....
How more free space there is, more time vis need, too calculate..... last contest q2reloaded same problem with my Dark city map...12hours compile time and R speed was much to0 high......



With each new map you create, you learn a bit.
It's a challenge to keep compile time low ..

Already build new version...and split room in two....vis take ½ hour.......don,t forget details on everything smaller then 16x16 grid.

Good work!..

[JohnnyDean]

Thanks Margaal, I might just split some rooms too, and maybe the skybox is too big as well...
I'll look into everything as soon as I get the chance!!!!

[tmg]

if you encapsulated the entire map with a big sky cube then you can kiss quick vis processing times out the window (I used to do that myself)

Then when I started to really hone my mapping skills, I made sure I got all my brush work to line up correctly and then I put a sky brush above each area in my map where I wanted sky to be, and used area portals and hint brushes and wow, my vis times plumeted...it's all about optimisation friend - the more you practice the more you learn, so just keep at it when you can and you'll get there

[spirit]

In order to keep VIS compile times really low you need to use detail brushes properly, but a lot depends on the layout of your map. If your map is one large room or outdoor area and VIS can't separate different regions, VIS time and rspeeds are gonna be high and hint brushes won't save you.

Having a separate sky brush for every room/area (preferably a flat one rather than a vast box) also helps a lot, but it may get you into trouble (because parts of the map may be visible through the sky brush in one room) depending on your map layout.

The most important thing is that if you have several complex and large areas or rooms in your map, you should make sure that you cannot see more than one of them at once from any point in the map.

I like to make small tourney maps and I use detail brushes wherever appropriate. On my old and slow box, these maps usually take less than 2 seconds to compile VIS. I often place some hint brushes when I'm almost done with the map but they don't seem to make much of a difference with such small maps. Details and map layout are far more important.

If your map takes hours, it most likely is pretty complex (like Margaal's city map) or needs more brushes set to detail.

[JohnnyDean]

Hey spirit, that skybox thing will be taken into consideration!!!! Now about this map I'm making, it's made of several rooms which I want to be seen from one another. I've set a lot of brushes to detail (pretty much everything that isn't lighttexted or water), and that might be complicating things as well...
The problem is trying and figuring out how to make things work.
Still, thanks for all the help!!!!

[JohnnyDean]

I'm down with that!!!!!!

[tmg]

hi rshark, I was thinking about your map some more today and I thought of letting you know, if you selected all the supports that are under the platform in the picture above and select the beams and brushes that are against the wall and make it all detail and also make them a 'func_wall' you would make VIS time alot less.

Just a thought.