Pan's kitchen

[Pan]

Status update:
The map is progressing well but there still is lots to be done. There's always something...

I decided to go for stock textures only but I'll probably use a custom sky. I'm in the middle of picking a texture "theme" that will hopefully set the right mood for what I have in mind. Fortunately I found a couple of players willing to locally playtest with me so that is hopefully going to benefit the item placement.
I should probably not spend as much time running and jumping around in the map after each compile as I do now. On the other hand, you can't expect to build a good map in 3D without spending enough time on it and IN it and moving around. All these things take time...


About thread updates:
I understand that some mappers appreciate the idea of getting early feedback but personally during a contest I rather not show and (try to) look at WIP screenshots because that kind of spoils half the surprise for me - that's just what I prefer.

I'll update my status from time to time though and maybe at a later time I'll post some more. In the meantime, here's some noodlesoup

[jitspoe]

Your map is making me really hungry for ramen for some reason...

[Null]

Very yummy indeed so no need to spoil the surprise of the three course meal!
Everyone has their own personal preference and we're totally cool with that
You're welcome to use whatever strategy you need to win.

[Wixen1 [Q2C]]

Mar 1, 2015 17:46:50 GMT -5 Pan said:

Status update:
About thread updates:
I understand that some mappers appreciate the idea of getting early feedback but personally during a contest I rather not show and (try to) look at WIP screenshots because that kind of spoils half the surprise for me - that's just what I prefer.

I'll update my status from time to time though and maybe at a later time I'll post some more. In the meantime, here's some noodlesoup

View Attachment

I agree with you, it kind of spoils the surprise. And I can not be the only one seeing the awkwardness of a judge being able to see, give hints and advices to a map he has to judge later on.

-W1

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2015 17:46:50 GMT -5 Pan said:

Status update:


About thread updates:
I understand that some mappers appreciate the idea of getting early feedback but personally during a contest I rather not show and (try to) look at WIP screenshots because that kind of spoils half the surprise for me - that's just what I prefer.

I'll update my status from time to time though and maybe at a later time I'll post some more. In the meantime, here's some noodlesoup

View Attachment

jajajaja.... ...Panjoo posten die screenshotssss Jonghke!.

And Yeah.....I promise -----> will not give feedback!...zou niet durven .


Huh?!..
I will also drop one more screenshot on my map status ( perhaps a widescreen ).

Hup! hup!

[WizardExt]

About thread updates..

I kind of agree. It's a bit weird having work-in-progress for a contest. Mainly because there is no real "wow" effect when the final results are shown, since you have seen them progressing. And also, as Wixen1 stated; the awkward position being a judge and giving feedback. In general I love work-in-progress posts, I love to see how projects are progressing, helping out and see peoples discussion and the thoughts from the author.

So I have mixed feelings.

[spirit]

Same here. As a mapper you benefit from people's comments and suggestions of course, but what I liked most about the contest was the day when all the maps were published and I could try them out after waiting for them for so long. Christmas is more fun if you don't know your presents since 1st of December, you know.


Now it's too late, but for the next contest (if there will be another one), I would vote to change this rule. And I'm looking forward to Pan's soup btw. Grunt no more is one of my all time favourites, and Rigor mortis is also great.

[Null]

I agree that it might be a bit unusual, although some would claim the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, because the alternative would be to have little support or creative discussion.
Intentionally we've made this optional to make everyone comfortable, and those who really wanted still waited and kept it a secret. Spirit you can still keep your other map a secret,
and have your Christmas surprises. Others might want to have presents year round and we want to accommodate them as well. We went with a mixed format this time which nobody objected to early on.
Again, you do not have to post your screenshots if you don't want to. Our judges are capable of making fair and balanced decisions, and it's nothing they can't handle.
The winning maps will still emerge on top, so no worries there.

[cocerello]

I agree too, but i'm more concerned that with public feedback this contest is turning more into a community map pack, which isn't bad either. Thought that from the beginning, but thought also that it was a custom in the previous contests, as no one said a thing.

The good points of showing early the works: raises the hype of non-mappers and keeps them interested on it.

[Null]

I can understand the various concerns, since initially I had them too.

Mar 6, 2015 12:44:27 GMT -5 cocerello said:

The good points of showing early the works: raises the hype of non-mappers and keeps them interested on it.

Precisely, that's exactly the appeal of the mixed approach we want to tap into and highlight here. After all we need the Quake 2 community to join in and be more involved in our creative process if we are to attract new mappers and grow. I know some here want to protect their guarded recipe which I can totally understand and respect. But you got to understand how old Quake 2 is at this point, and increasingly it's becoming nothing more than an acquired taste. So unless we want this to be just a small or isolated niche of mappers eating their own soup, we must open the soup kitchen to new chefs with fresh talent and players they'll be serving. This way we can build up the interest of anyone following this contest every step of the way, who afterwards might feel compelled to make some maps themselves or suggest great ideas. It's been said that the journey can be just as much fun and exciting as getting there. Right now everyone is getting a small taste and a glimpse of what is going on behind the scene. It's not like the screenshots give you the full picture anyway, and early submissions still have enough time to modify their maps and make them very different. The tension and excitement is growing steadily with less then 10 days to go! And it's exactly what we planned on. We're not just making soup here in this kitchen but a 3 course meal or maybe even a 5 to get everyone thoroughly satisfied. Rest assured that a crowned champion will emerge to claim the title but at this point it's too early too tell what's going to happen.

All in good taste, here some humor to illustrate the exaggerated concerns


And by no means am I implying that someone here represents the comical character above
All I'm saying is that we should encourage more mappers to share their creative process,
or at least part of their recipe so everyone in the community can learn something new.
This could be as little as a short explanation of your work flow, a sketch, or a few well placed screenshots here and there.

[Pan]

Hehe well yes, on the plus side, taking advantage of (hopefully) useful feedback on your contest map while you're progressing could result in better maps overall. Also, I don't expect it to really matter a whole lot in the judging department. I mean as a mapper you're still the one that had to come up with the main design in the first place and if that's not good then any feedback is only going to make the map less bad, unless you change everything and start over. And trying to give feedback on screenshots alone is mostly about visuals anyway like lighting and texture choice, in other words I'm not worried about it being unfair or anything.

Mar 6, 2015 12:59:52 GMT -5 Null said:

It's not like the screenshots give you the full picture anyway, and early submissions still have enough time to modify their maps and make them very different.
(...) All I'm saying is that we should encourage more mappers to share their creative process, or at least part of their recipe so everyone in the community can learn something new. This could be as little as a short explanation of your work flow, a sketch, or a few well placed screenshots here and there.

As someone who's been into Q2 mapping for many years, I can usually tell a lot of things from just one screenshot, unless it was taken very early on in the process and it doesn't really show anything yet. On one hand I'm with you on how sharing some of the creative processes can help keep more people interested in following this thing, but on the other hand the map-designing process is time consuming and tedious enough without having to explain to others your workflow and share the visual images that are still somewhere in your head. This is a contest after all, with a deadline, so I need every free hour that I have available to finish it.
As a silly perfectionist and I can see myself spending the evening just trying to find the right angle for a screenshot that won't show too much but still looks interesting, lol. And as much as I love that sort of thing I'd better use the time on the map itself. You guys are okay with it and I think it's cool that everyone can choose their own way of doing this, so gj !
(Hmm, maybe it's an idea to have a special WIP Help Thread for mappers who haven't made a Status thread possibly because they might be totally stuck with their map and who would welcome some pointers.)

[jitspoe]

Meh, I'm just in this to have fun and make a cool map. Bouncing ideas and feedback back and forth help with that. I'm hoping the surprise will come when people are actually able to jump in and run around in the map.

The competitive aspect isn't driving me so much as the deadline, and the feedback hasn't caused me to change my vision of the map.

[Deleted]

Boeh!.....am here to defend my 9th contest title ...

My intention is to post screenshots for a purpose to show that i am (STILL) active in order to keep this Q2cafe alive..

This is me, show my love for this game and mapping, i have nothing to hide!.


But Yeah otherhand...it is what Pan say:
it can be tricky to find the right angle for a screenshot...surprise surprise .


I`M ReAdY To dO BattLe ....