New DM Map > Metal (updated)

[Deleted]

Hi...

I test and play aLL my Dm Mapz with 3zb2 ( against Bots ).
try it..

users.jp.tri6.net/~ponpoko/3zb2097.zip

download zip..

1) extract in Q2 dir...
2) open 3zb2 dir and start 3zb2.bat

for more info read 3zbdoc.txt

Really very useful and easy to use with numberpad...

[giftmacher]

Yea thank you I can try that, I tested with Gladiator bot, but after following the tip of lowering spawn points 10 grids so they don't appear the bots didn't work very well...

Edit: This bot worked great thank you

[Null]

Earlier today players on my server had a blast testing your first ever DM map. Good work!

Testing against bots isn't the same in my opinion. For one, based on primitive AI you can't predict how regular players will use the surroundings to their advantage, or which weapons they'll exploit in any given area.
I've created an alternative version of giftdm1 (giftdm1c), which is scaled x1.5 along x and y axis. As a result the overall map is somewhat roomier so a few areas were trimmed out to keep the action in the center. (As you can probably tell we like lots of room for ground combat, and not too many tight corridors to get trapped in) In the override I've changed the sky and also added feature props / sounds to give each area a unique feel that players can relate and easily orientate to. (To cut down on disorientation and for esthetics)

Other notes:
Overall you don't need to make your maps any bigger than this one, in terms of corridor complexity and such,
just make each individual area more detailed and somewhat wider in order to fit more unconstrained combat in them.
Typically you want the map to have only 2 high levels max for combat simplicity in DM. (Even 3 can get somewhat annoying sometimes)
The ceilings should be high enough so you don't bump your head when you jump.
Finally the connecting corridors between areas should probably be as short as possible,
so players don't waste time getting around, but still quite wide to accommodate combat.

Here's some preliminary feedback about the map:

<SYNOD>MEZZ: hehe
bloods: ty
>SD>Godspeed: its good
>SD>Godspeed: easy enough to flow through
>SD>Godspeed: with hook
NIN-Null: good stuff

Map and Override:
http.tastyspleen.net/~p1/quake2/weapons/maps/?C=M;O=D

To play your map anytime on the Whale server:
connect 74.86.171.203
vote map giftdm1c

To spectate different players:
Press Tab and select Camera with [ ] and Enter
Or type in console: chasecam
Use [ and ] to switch players


Action earlier today:









(I have high alpha / brightness if you're wondering about shadows)

[jaydolan]

Love the classic look and baseq2 textures. It looks like it'd be a lot of fun. gif, if you have any interest in possibly mapping for Quake2World, please let me know!

[giftmacher]

Glad you tried it Null and thank you for the feedback, I will see what I can do, this was not built from scratch but based on an unfinished map I had. The original Q2DM maps are all much larger than this map, but maps like Q2DM4 lost hallways becomes unplayable with like 4 players and below, very different from quake 1 I feel but they are very different games too.. I think I will tinker some more on this map, add more detail at least. But ok so DM maps for the community should be about this size but more compact with less corridors and wider space!

Thank you jaydolan, I checked out quake2world, looks cool, I don't know anything about it though in terms of mapping and what tools are used. Also I was wondering if anyone knows a lot about quark and q2 mapping, there are still some things I don't know how to do yet, like bending pipes, making spiral stairs, stuff like that..

[Null]

Here are examples of some of the more popular / successful DM maps, along with gifdm1 / giftdm1c for scale comparison. Version c is x1.5 the scale. Basically what we prefer are wider individual areas to accommodate more point to point combat.
When the maps are nice and compact (yet still retain unconstricted areas), the overall action is never far off from the center of the map, and the players don't have to wonder far to get it on. This is a good guide of what has worked in the past

[giftmacher]

Cool comparison Null and very useful, however there are some significant differences between the size of these maps, in my map (even with all the areas available, nothing trimmed) there is more or less constant action with 4 players (3 bots + me), with the trimmed version there is constant action with zero "downtime", basically you will have an enemy in your face the moment you spawn I felt that 4 players worked well on q2dm6 as well, some what comparable to my map in terms of size. However q2dm5 and q2dm8 are different, they have some areas that let a player sneak off and gather some items and then return to the choke points, they are also much larger in size. Even q2dm1 - edge, which is small and centered around a huge central fighting area has some "sneaking off" areas like the railgun and inner areas.

Another important difference that I notice when examining these maps is that they are a lot more "space efficient", even on the layout here you can see that they are stacked to the rim with brush work, yet they hit much better r_speeds and run smoother than my map (which based on the layout should be a lightwheight in comparison . The reason is of course that they are done by expert mappers who knows basically everything there is to know about leveldesign, for example compare my "mega health" room bottom right to the middle hub area with the huge pillar, they are almost equally big, yet very little is of interest in the mega room except for the 1 powerup, so its oversized, the same with the hyperblaster room, it is also too large, a lot of that space has no purpose. Same with redarmor room, a very large room but not much fighting takes place there, so these powerup rooms should be smaller and the central hubs larger! But you learn a lot by looking at the "Id levels", and when your a beginner like me the next map is always (hopefully) better than the previous one.

Also consider player size in terms of these original dm maps, usually maps are designed for 2-6, 4-8, 6-12, 8-16 players etc, 4 players made my map stacked, 6 would probably make you run around with the blaster a lot (no weapons available), but q2dm8 should easily work with up to 12 players. So even though in terms of "actual space" the Id maps are not much larger, they make better use of the space, providing moments where players can wander off a bit from the action.

I look a lot on the Id maps, I walk around taking screenshots then I do "reversed engineering" in a prefab map while examining the shots, trying to emulate how they did something, that is actually a great tip for anyone who wants to improve their mapping skills, check out expert maps and try and break down individual brush work into a process where you reconstruct it on your own, a fancy door or the brush work that surrounds the door (check out toxic waste station / pumping station 1 & 2 for inspiration on how to do sewer maps, I still don't understand how they did all that..)

[Null]

Yup those are some good insights. Q2DM3 is probably my favorite because how compact yet roomy it is, and since you're always a step away from action (although I rather it'd be filled with water instead of lava) I don't doubt that in the original Giftdm1 the bots where on you all the time. As you might have noticed in the screenshot, to give more room per area (since original was a little tight), the C version is x1.5 larger, so naturally it'll take more time to traverse as opposed to original. If the map was a bit more compact in terms of corridors nothing would get trimmed. Also the few areas that got trimmed were only blocked off because the map was getting a bit large at this point, and not because I didn't like them. R_speeds are usually affected by how far and from how many points into the map you can see, (and based on that they can increase almost exponentially). So generally a compact map, even full to the brim with rich brush detail can do quite nicely, and the Q2DM line is a perfect testament to that. BTW I also like waste1-2, base1-3, and boss2 since they're also not bad for DM. You might be interested to check out our current map lists to see what other non standard maps seem to work for DM. It's worth mentioning we also really like Maric's and Margaal's maps a lot because of their clean compact layouts and esthetics Our server runs a variable size rotation depending on how many players are on at any given time, and most average sized maps fall into maplist 2.

Description_____Players____Filename
Small Maplist___1-5________maplist1.txt
Medium Maplist__6-10_______maplist2.txt
Large Maplist___11-15______maplist3.txt
XL Maplist______16-32______maplist4.txt

Whale server's maplists:
www.netdoo.com/wodx/maplists/

Maps:
http.tastyspleen.net/~p1/quake2/weapons/maps/?C=M;O=D