giftdm8 - Tryggve's Tomb (updated)

[giftmacher]

Hello!

I decided to revise my work method which was very random and scrappy, I took a few pages out of spirit's book trying his (and I'm guessing most other top map designers) method of using a layout, then boxing this layout in the editor testing movement/item placement/line of sight. Basically only mapping with 1 wall and 1 floor texture. Rough geometry. The result is this map, which is very small and basic in design, for me it was a learning experience to make this map and I kept it very simple to not complicate things for myself (mostly square areas/geometry). Below are some screens of how it started and the end result of one area. Now the map flow is probably not world class since I only did a few tests with bots but the important part for me was to finish a layout and realize this map, practicing this way of mapping.

Update #1
After a few weeks of sporadic fine tuning I feel the map is ready for beta release, I'm also sick of it because I've been tinkering with it for quite some time now Please, have a look and give constructive feedback regarding gameplay/item placement, still not sure of that so I'm all ears! (Of course if you find any bugs and errors please let me know)

Update #2

* Removed one teleporter
* Minor texture changes
* Made weapon spots more visually distinct
* Reworked item placement for weapons/ammo/health/powerups
* Removed Machine Gun

- Link updated!

-=[Screenshots]=-



layout

boxed #1
detailed

boxed #2
detailed

boxed #3
detailed

screen #1
screen #2
screen #3

Download

[Deleted]

I see a lot of recognizable details in your map from other designers ( also good maps ).....
ANd yeah ....nice map, a good textures choice, a powerful map, yep a good mapping style ...
quality i like it!...

feedback is coming ... private

[Null]

I'm surprised what a huge difference pen and paper planning makes. This map already feels like it was made for death-match!
Awesome job, from what I can see it looks nicely fused and balanced. With this design method you're sure to step up your game, and take your craft to another level.

May 11, 2015 14:49:13 GMT -5 @margaalq2 said:

feedback is coming ... private

Why private? We're all grown ups here! Come on don't be shy

[Deleted]

May 11, 2015 16:25:48 GMT -5 @margaalq2 said:

May 11, 2015 13:47:23 GMT -5 giftmacher said:

Hello!

Download link coming! Need some more tuning

Yeah map is too good to share so early..

May 11, 2015 14:49:13 GMT -5 @margaalq2 said:

feedback is coming ... private

[quote author="Null" Why private? We're all grown ups here! Come on don't be shy

i will not spoil the surprise with screenshots feedback.. , better release this map for a new contest!

[giftmacher]

Thanks crypt & Null, I would really like to get the thunder effect working in deathmatch mode though.. (works fine in normal mode, func_timer+trigger_relay) it was a big part of the atmosphere. Will tune texturing/trims a bit with margaal screenshots.

[jaydolan]

This is total class. Really nicely done, giftmacher. Layout looks strong, theme is cohesive, lighting looks damn near perfect. Really sweet. Looking forward to playing it!

[giftmacher]

Thank you for the positive response, still tuning it, shame the func-timer and trigger-relay stuff didnt fire in DM mode for thunder lighting effect..

[jaydolan]

Why is the trigger-relay necessary? A func_timer can directly target multiple target_speakers. Jester's map Stress Fractures uses a func_timer and target_speakers to achieve I think the same effect you're going for. I was going to offer up the .map file, but the version that I have has been updated to take advantage of Quetoo's client-side emitters, and so it's not the same entity chain. Still, if you open up jstress.bsp in a text editor, you can find the entity string and see how it's done. Hope this helps.

[giftmacher]

Ok thanks jay, I will try that, where can I find all of his maps? I only have a few of them, mostly the contest maps. Although did he put in a "lighting" effect with light entities or just the sound? It's the light entities that gives me trouble, func_timer -> target_speakers is already in place and works, but it didn't work with light entities because it kept adding seconds to their "uptime". In DM the light entities (despite being 'start off') are on from the get go, ignoring my relay triggers (or they are not firing at all in DM mode).

Edit: I should learn how to google, found his webpage, j-spot.backshooters.com/maps.html

[jaydolan]

Oh -- you're having trouble with LIGHTS. Gotcha. No, sorry, lightstyles are completely disabled in Q2 deathmatch. A shame, really. Sorry if I mislead you.

[giftmacher]

Look at all those nifty banners! thanks...

[giftmacher]

Updated, would love some feedback on item placement, I can switch them around a lot, I'm even thinking about removing all items and replacing them with a fresh mind and some feedback. Also teleporter locations, (where you end up) is not final, especially the one where you drop down. I just felt it was easy to get locked down/stuck in those areas, that's why I put in teleporter there, a third option if you will. If you find any bugs/errors, texture problems and what not please let me know.

[sP1Sp0pD]

I've run around it for a short while giftmacher, nice map with personality! Ambient sound work is especially impressive and helps to establish overall atmosphere. Being a relatively large map, it would take me some time to remember all items' locations and get the grasp of, but nothing feels particularly "odd" at the first glance (I didn't try earlier versions though).

Placing the only slugs under the bridge in muddy waters was good idea, BTW. :-) DJ from the first floor (near the RL on the stairs, western part of the map) is quite doable and high enough to reach the second floor quickly (can be helpful when being chased).

There's one thing that looks like a bug to me: brush 1277 (lamp) emits light, yet there is quite prominent triangle shadow on the ceiling right next to it, does not look very natural IMHO. Also it's not parallel to the wall-ceiling edge, is it intended?

P.S. Purely technical issue: many brushes are not strictly aligned to the grid (have non-integer coordinates). Sometimes they're pretty close, like "41.999..." or "42.000...", but often are not. I don't know of any real taboo on fractional values, but I personally try to avoid them, even if it requires to reshape and reposition a few brushes. Integers also make map source look more neat. ;-)

[giftmacher]

sP1Sp0pD, thanks for the input and comments, I will look into that brush 1277, a few brushes are cut up/shaped with clipping tool, I don't like to use it and we all know it's a no-no but for this map I had to because QuaRK was giving me technical problems with the amount of brushes in the map. So to save brush count I shaped a few ceiling segments so that one big brush could do the job instead of like 4, maybe that causes some problem with grid alignment? Other than that the rest should be aligned to the grid, I've used 8 and 16, some rare cases grid size 4. Strange? Some lights are twisted to look like broken lights. Or do you mean it's floating in the air and not touching the wall? Then that's not intended no!

crypt, glad you liked it, I did put some effort into the ambient sounds! Yea perhaps under stairs wasn't the most bright placement

On another note, I'm waiting for the QuaRK guy to track down the evil bug that causes large (high brush count) maps to fail after compiling through QuaRK.

[sP1Sp0pD]

No, I was mainly talking about integer vs. non-integer brush coordinates, for example:

// brush 85
{
( 1024 -512 -16 ) ( 1024 -640 -16 ) ( 1152 -512 -16 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 0 0 0 1 -1
( 2304 256 0 ) ( 2304 384 0 ) ( 2432 256 0 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 0 0 0 1 1
( 384 -144 224 ) ( 384 -144 352 ) ( 512 -144 224 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 0 32 0 1 1
( 1018.0821533203 63.9999847412 -32 ) ( 1018.0821533203 63.9999847412 96 ) ( 890.0821533203 63.9999237061 -32 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 58 32 0 -1 1
( 1520 303.9999694824 512 ) ( 1520 303.9999694824 384 ) ( 1520 431.9999694824 512 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16l 0 48 -90 1 1
( 1536 -448 0 ) ( 1536 -448 128 ) ( 1536 -320 0 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 0 0 0 1 1
}
You can see that some values are fractional, but still pretty close to an integer. This can be collateral effect of earlier brush transformation(s); it can also occur as a result of initial BSP→MAP decompilation. When it happens, I typically fix them in a text editor (too lazy to write a script).

Now, things can get worse. Take a look at aforementioned brush 1277:

// brush 1277
{
( 1617.0883789062 563.5979614258 125.6568756104 ) ( 1681.0883789062 627.5979614258 35.1472015381 ) ( 1681.0883789062 627.5979614258 216.1665344238 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 18 27 54.7356109619 0.8660299778 -0.8165000081
( 1707.5979003906 473.0883789062 125.6568756104 ) ( 1643.5980224609 409.0883178711 216.1665344238 ) ( 1771.5980224609 537.0883178711 216.1665344238 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 14 0 54.7356185913 0.8660299778 0.8165000081
( 1601.0882568359 547.5979614258 148.284362793 ) ( 1691.5979003906 457.0883178711 148.2843170166 ) ( 1665.0883789062 611.5980224609 238.7938995361 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 27 41 45 0.7071099877 -1
( 1585.0882568359 531.5980224609 170.9117126465 ) ( 1675.5980224609 441.0883789062 170.9116668701 ) ( 1521.0883789062 467.5980529785 80.4020080566 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 5 41 225 0.7071099877 1
( 1585.0882568359 531.5980224609 80.4020233154 ) ( 1675.5980224609 441.0883789062 80.4020690918 ) ( 1649.0883789062 595.5980224609 -10.1075744629 ) giftdm8/slight02 27 105 45 0.7071099877 -1
( 1604.4019775391 550.9116821289 107.7156982422 ) ( 1694.9116210938 460.4020385742 107.715713501 ) ( 1540.4019775391 486.9116821289 198.2253875732 ) giftdm8/mt_pv_m16bb 43 41 225 0.7071099877 1
}
The brush definitely needs some love! ;-)

P.S. I also do not share that cursing attitude towards clipping tool that some folks tend to exhibit. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, and it can come quite handy, although it makes sense to check the final result as you might want to adjust newly added brush face(s). Basically, any tool one might like is OK as long as resulting brush comes out sane. However, do not blindly trust your editor and always review the actual changes made to your map after applying them. Putting your map under version control system (e.g. Mercurial/Git/SVN/CVS, whichever you prefer) can be a huge helper in this regard.