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Post by knightmare on Sept 20, 2021 17:33:16 GMT -5
Definitely, as they are protrusions. Everything that's not a wall, floor, or ceiling should be detail.
You can even make the center trapezoidal parts of your partially-glass doorways detail, and have the 6-sided portion go thru behind it and be structural.
You should look at your map with detail brushes hidden in the editor. Make that geometry as plain and simple as possible.
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 20, 2021 19:18:21 GMT -5
I did. I made all brushes like trim, lamps etc. detail. But there's another reason: too much visibility lump. Probably that's because of too large open areas: you can see one base from another, there's direct line of sight! Isn't it? I'll try to divide that areas with wall and see what would happen.
Or maybe I'll make a DM map in this style. I've noticed thete are so few maps in jail (e1u3) style, so I gonna try it!
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 21, 2021 15:48:43 GMT -5
Definitely, as they are protrusions. Everything that's not a wall, floor, or ceiling should be detail. You can even make the center trapezoidal parts of your partially-glass doorways detail, and have the 6-sided portion go thru behind it and be structural. You should look at your map with detail brushes hidden in the editor. Make that geometry as plain and simple as possible. OK, here's my map WITH detail brushes:
Here's without:
Is it correct?
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Post by knightmare on Sept 21, 2021 18:56:04 GMT -5
Like I said, the center trapezoidal part should be detail. That step down in size is creating extra vis portals.
Make the 6-sided part around that go all the way through behind it to seal the map.
Even better, you could make the 6-sided part detail as well and just have a rectangular vis hull around it.
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 22, 2021 6:20:06 GMT -5
You mean that passage with brown texture? I made it detail and that how it looks:
What about those "bridges" in the yard? They shold be detail too?
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 22, 2021 6:26:26 GMT -5
What are the main criteria for the fact that the map is optimized? The fewer portals, the better? How can I find out how many portals there are?
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 22, 2021 6:33:33 GMT -5
I just want my map be playable in vanilla, so I have to optimize it as much as possible.
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Post by knightmare on Sept 22, 2021 15:34:33 GMT -5
The passage looks a lot better. Removing those extra portals should really simplify things.
The bridges should probably be detail as well. As long as it doesn't screw up bots (try both the ACE bots and 3ZB2 bots).
Qvis3 outputs the number of portals and portalclusters when it loads a map, so look in the output there.
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Post by knightmare on Sept 29, 2021 3:44:24 GMT -5
I finished your 3-map unit (I've been busy with a lot of other stuff lately).
It's got good, solid architecture. No brush construction or other noticable technical issues.
The perfectly symmetrical layout in gugg_toxin1 could use a tad more embellishment. The maps' layouts vaguely remind me of some user Half-Life maps. I liked the lift with containers used to return to the first map, it's right out of the third unit of Ground Zero.
BTW, It's a bit odd that the water and slime pipes in the outdoor water area with the comm dish in the barracks map didn't go anywhere. That area doesn't really serve a purpose or go anywhere.
Combat at start was pretty hard with just a blaster. You really made me work for the machinegun. A bit odd getting it one map before the shotgun.
Having all those armor shards and no combat armor in the unit makes me sad, as they lose half their accumulated value as soon as you get an armor upgrade. So I usually avoid picking them up until I can get better armor.
The weapon selection of just machinegun and shotgun for most of the unit was quite sparse. Then throwing in the grenade launcher after returning to the first map and the ETF in the third map is a bit of an odd progression.
I managed to find all the secrets after quite a lot of looking. The teased crawlspace under the floor in the barracks map was fiendishly tricky to find the entrance to. The health and ammo secrets in the slime in the firts two maps were quite meager.
BTW, the KMQ2 missionpack DLL in recent current test builds also includes support for the Plasma Rifle (weapon_plasma) and plasma soldier (monster_soldier_plasma_re and monster_soldier_plasma_sp) from LM Escape. I can send you a pk3 file with the assets for these if you're interested.
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 29, 2021 12:57:29 GMT -5
I finished your 3-map unit (I've been busy with a lot of other stuff lately). It's got good, solid architecture. No brush construction or other noticable technical issues. The perfectly symmetrical layout in gugg_toxin1 could use a tad more embellishment. The maps' layouts vaguely remind me of some user Half-Life maps. I liked the lift with containers used to return to the first map, it's right out of the third unit of Ground Zero. BTW, It's a bit odd that the water and slime pipes in the outdoor water area with the comm dish in the barracks map didn't go anywhere. That area doesn't really serve a purpose or go anywhere. Combat at start was pretty hard with just a blaster. You really made me work for the machinegun. A bit odd getting it one map before the shotgun. Having all those armor shards and no combat armor in the unit makes me sad, as they lose half their accumulated value as soon as you get an armor upgrade. So I usually avoid picking them up until I can get better armor. The weapon selection of just machinegun and shotgun for most of the unit was quite sparse. Then throwing in the grenade launcher after returning to the first map and the ETF in the third map is a bit of an odd progression. I managed to find all the secrets after quite a lot of looking. The teased crawlspace under the floor in the barracks map was fiendishly tricky to find the entrance to. The health and ammo secrets in the slime in the firts two maps were quite meager. BTW, the KMQ2 missionpack DLL in recent current test builds also includes support for the Plasma Rifle (weapon_plasma) and plasma soldier (monster_soldier_plasma_re and monster_soldier_plasma_sp) from LM Escape. I can send you a pk3 file with the assets for these if you're interested. Thank you for feedback!
At the beginning I just planned to make symmetrical DM or even CTF map in "waste" style. Best of all I like "warehouse" and "jail" texture sets (e1u2 and e1u3 respectively), and I just wanted to give myself a challenge to make a map in defferent style. And then my ideas went like snowball: getting more and more. IMHO, at the end of project my inspiration started to run out: I consider some areas at "Barracks" map ugly , especially the rocky areas! Probably, Radiant is not the best editor to make rocky areas, but I'm used to it. Anyway, ID software used it.
Probably that area at "Barracks" didn't go anywhere, but just remember the "shotgun room" at Outer Base. BTW, sometimes grenade launcher may be found there, I used target_locator to "randomize" entities. (Thank you again for this awesome engine!) And in the first map of my unit machinegun spawns at different places.
Why I put machinegun before shotgun? At first, as I said, in the early releases of your engine shotgun was really powerful (dealing 72 damage per shot), so I decided that it should apper after machinegun. Secondly, I just wanted to break that "rule", that shotgun is the very first weapon that player get.
Soon I'll update my SP unit, just after I'll finish with my CTF my map. I'm still struggling to make it playable in vanilla. I'll replace some secrets, maybe even "randomize" them with target_locator. I really liked that thing! Too bad you can randomize only by single items. For example, I have some secret area and I want to make some choice: there would appear quad damage or ETF rifle with couple flechettes boxes, or big health with jacket armor. If you're planning to improve engine further, that would be a great idea.
Yes, I would be glad to use new features if it possible, so share that PK3. That plasma gun looks great, but it seems a bit overpowered to me. Probably, it should be placed at the late-game specially to find bosses and strong enemies.
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 29, 2021 17:25:31 GMT -5
What is the brush limit in vanilla? There is 4707 brushes and 668 entities. There are really huge maps in LMCTF, but they are played well. What's the point?
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Post by Guggenheim on Sept 30, 2021 6:06:30 GMT -5
Here's r_speeds. Is it normal? What is the highest allowed value?
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Post by grieve[Q2C] on Sept 30, 2021 12:06:26 GMT -5
in the days of pure vanilla Q2, g_speeds above 1000 were considered too high. with modern days source ports and up to date hardware, r_speeds up to 4000 and above should be possible.
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Post by knightmare on Sept 30, 2021 19:33:54 GMT -5
The brush limit for the vanilla Q2 BSP format is 8K. There are other more bothersome limits with planes, nodes, leafs, brushsides, faces, etc at 64K that cannot be increased without a totally new BSP format.
The only r_speeds (wsurf, not wpoly) limit is what your hardware can handle. I've had KMQ2 go well over 5000 without breaking a sweat.
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Post by Guggenheim on Oct 9, 2021 4:42:17 GMT -5
A little update: I divided that area with wall, and map successfully run in vanilla!
But this goes against my plan. I'm afraid I have to remake my map so there shouldn't be such big areas.
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