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Post by cocerello on Feb 9, 2017 16:10:45 GMT -5
No idea for now, i will take a look. But it is strange, if it were missing the textures they would appear as pink and black squares, and if it were that you used accidentally the option for showing 3D filled polygons they would be shown in different colours.
For now, could you post here the log? On the Windows>>>>Messages Tab
Also check Map>>>check for problems Tab, just in case.
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Post by cocerello on Jul 10, 2016 5:58:05 GMT -5
Final version of the map has been released. Same link as before. What engine should i use to run this? The author says in his page to use any limit-enhancing engine, using as an example KMQuake. Use that, just in case, but probably any that increases the limits is OK.
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Post by cocerello on Jun 25, 2015 2:54:10 GMT -5
Thank you!! They are going to be useful.
Will be hilarious to make a cartoonish Quake 2 map with some of the colorful models.
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Post by cocerello on Jun 24, 2015 16:43:40 GMT -5
NEW VERSION !!Made some tweaks on the map and i am releasing a new version. Enjoy it!! There is less changes than last time, so i overwrote the previous version. The link is the same. www.dropbox.com/s/klcwddy8uuq3ysp/coceq2dm01.zip?dl=0I consider this map done but maybe I'll make another version if i find something worthy enough. Changelog (0.f) - Changed the lighting values in several places were it was too overbright or not bright enough. - In the central cave part, deleted a rocket pack, added a grenade pack and changed the red armor for a yellow one. Made the door to the MH move slower to make it harder to get. - Added a few small health packs on the cave's corridors, so they aren't that lonely. Kept the number low so no one will go there just for those. - Reworked the pond in the center so its easier to navigate. - For SP, made the differences between difficulties more noticeable, except one combat on skill 2 that had to be toned down. Made also the combats around the first barrier a bit more random to add more replay value. - Reworked the first and second barriers in SP. As always more details are on the included text file for everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------ And changing the topic, Pan: Don't worry about the time, after all, it also took me a month to see this and answer you. Thanks for the time involved. Overall are things that i already knew from before making the map, but chose to disregard to keep the flavor of the map. Apart form that, the two main causes of what you point out are, the size of the corridors in the starting area, which made me to make the rest big also, and my obsession at keeping the r_speeds and visdata low (the second because i hit the limit). I have been working on a way more compact version of this map that avoids all those problems entirely, but real life issues will probably keep me from releasing it till September. You also seem to have taken the time to plan some sort of gameplay strategy that resembles the "King of the hill" mod, in which the player must try to make his way to the main spot of the map (in this case not up but down). At least that's the impression I get from the map's layout and the overall item and spawn placement. yes, more or less the base of the idea was similar to that one. you have more details about that on this thread and in the text file that comes with the map. If you only have a MG with 50 bullets (and you accidentally lost health because of lasers) you're not going to do much against anyone who has been sitting on the Red Armor + Mega + RocketLauncher.In your experience at playing, do you think that's going to happen often? Given the fact that both the RA and MH need some kind of trick to reach and take time to get that looks to me improbable, except if the number of players is low. Also the RL isn't that much powerful. Well, now that's going to be less of a problem, as i reduced the amount of powerful items in that room ... - First and foremost, add more spawnpoints in or closer to the bottom level (the main cave). This way the player that just got killed has at least some chance to steal away a powerful item or surprise the now recovering opponent and take him down in the rebound.Wouldn't that be worse? The only weapon in the middle is a single RL, so i don't see the point of getting there without another weapon, except if the number of players is high, so you can sneak and steal it. The only way i see to use your ides would be if i were to put a weapon on each cave corridor leading to the center cave. - Put at least some useful items in the many empty vulnerable areas. Even a couple of armor_shard's or item_health_small's could really help the freshly respawned player feel somewhat protected. (Also some ammo_grenades here and there are great in that regard.) - I don't know what the idea is behind the elevators* but for for some reason they only go down(?). So, if during a fight you're forced to take cover in one of those rocky passages at the bottom of the map, you're trapped in a dead-end because the elevators are not there. There are also no items whatsoever to recover or making it worth taking the risk to go in.That's on purpose also. The lack of items there is so no one will stay there for long, so there is no camping on approaching players, the dead end is less obvious and less of a problem, and the length and overabundance of corridors are less of a an issue. On the part about the elevators, it's explained on the text file also and on the answer i made to WizardExt some posts above, but long story short, i wanted the player to cycle through the three levels, and also forcing a direction would make it so the problems at the cave corridors would be non-existant as there would be barely any combat there. Another possibility would be to remove the elevators and use the ladders that you made singleplayer-only by changing their spawnflags.)Thought of that, but don't you think that stairs are a bit hard to navigate and slower to take? My guess is that you made those blue hallways go up and down to help block visibility but it might've been a better idea if you had leveled some of them, so there would've been less stairs to take and the player would've had a better line of sight. (Also, battling is so much better on a horizontal surface than on a staircase.) yes, that was the reason. Tried also to make everything on the same level, but looked too plain so discarded that idea. Also, a map need changes in height, horizontal combat gets old fast. - Another problem with long stairs is that it's easy to get snagged on the steps while strafe jumping. Turning staircases into ramps would probably make things too steep but it would speed up the flow there and would also cut down on wpolycount.
Took that into account too, but discarded it as those corridors (at least the ones in the starting area) are just there as an extra, i never intended for the players to use them a lot, that's why there is stairs, corridors, almost no items and lasers, so people avoid that area the most possible.
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Post by cocerello on May 8, 2015 13:32:50 GMT -5
Looks like you haven't read everything i wrote above, Pan, because i see some misunderstandings here. Looks like you haven't read the linked post that came with each review/suggestions list i made for each map, which has some paragraphs wrote on purpose to avoid these misunderstandings. Cocerello, I have checked several times before and I just checked again but I couldn't find any extra paragraphs in which you elaborated on what you wrote and how you wrote it in this thread (?). That link at the top of your 1st post here only points to the thread with all the maps that entered. I had even checked your profile to see the posts you made over the last weeks and I didn't find any text that would explain your feedback, so from my point of view there wasn't a whole lot to misunderstand. Which by the way is no problem and I do appreciate your effort. Quite an effort you did there. Don't worry, it isn't that big and most of it i already pointed out in my last post, so its no big issue. Yes, its on that thread you are talking about. There is two posts there written by me. Those are the ones, mainly the first, as its the one i wrote before the reviews and the one being linked, but the second talks about that a bit too. On that note, I've been taking a closer look at your maps and been thinking of writing up some gameplay suggestions whenever I'm in the right frame of mind. Thank you. I'll be waiting eagerly for that! I don't mind waiting the time you need to do that, so take your time.
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Post by cocerello on May 4, 2015 9:07:35 GMT -5
What an odd reply. cocerello, since, by your own admission, you're not a "dedicated" or duel player, I'm not sure why you feel so compelled to critique this map, or why you insist that Pan concedes all of your feedback. In my opinion, based on 17+ years of being a dedicated Quake2 player and hacker, duel players will appreciate all of the nuances Pan included in this map. Are you not pleased with how this map scored or something? I guess my point is that: you gave your feedback, Pan accepted much of it but pointed out a few clarifications. That should basically be the end of the critique. It's impolite, in my opinion, to carry on about the feedback, or not let the map author have the last word. Jaydolan, you got it wrong. And you too, Spirit. I don't want for Pan to concede a single thing, EVER, i just wanted to clarify some points that i think that he misunderstood about my feedback and to have a talk about mapping. For me its more impolite to let someone believe something that i haven't wrote, its like lying to him. About conceding things, in fact, if i had to choose, i would prefer if he were to be AGAINST every single thing i said, as long as he explained the reasons, to have a good mapping talk with everyone. But i can understand you getting that feeling out of my words, as i have mixed the clarifications of the misunderstanding with general mapping talking, and the later can be confused with criticisms towards the map. But given the number of problems it has given, i'll edit the post and delete the mapping talk parts, and case closed.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 30, 2015 14:04:51 GMT -5
Hmmmm ... Looks like you haven't read everything i wrote above, Pan, because i see some misunderstandings here. Looks like you haven't read the linked post that came with each review/suggestions list i made for each map, which has some paragraphs wrote on purpose to avoid these misunderstandings. That's to be expected, and probably half the people didn't read that either, as that part is in another thread but as its shared of each review, i wanted to keep it at a single place. Not that its a problem, as misunderstandings makes people talk, and also your explanations are interesting to read. If after reading that if you are in the mood, you still think you made no misunderstandings there, i have no problem in explaining, as i don't feel right when people get a wrong impression out of me, no matter if it is positive or negative, but to summarize it, you got out of my phrases more meaning than they really have. (By the way man, those bright green High Res textures in your q2 makes it look horrible, the original textures fit the map better...) Have to agree with that. They don't fit the rest of Id textures. On their own or with a more cartoonish texture set could work, but as ID's replacement, not. Thanks to you for answering. You deserve some points for that. - It was designed purely with 1v1 play in mind and duel maps really don't need all kinds of gimmicks to become interesting. Anyway there are a few trickjumps but you need some jump experience to find and do them: => couple of shortcuts to YA using the walllights and a jump to get across. -> There's also hard jump straight to MH using a doublejump from the 2nd step down (one short pre-jump followed by a quick doublejump before you touch the side) Never said the map needed them. What i said back there is that its lack provides an straightforward type of gameplay. On the other hand, its interesting and a good lesson about the details of the map. * "Even though it is small it takes more time than usual to learn it, due to the lack of character and personality in each room."- It's just small q2 duel map, not a singleplayer level that you can get lost in. If you make each "room" have its own personality it will just look like a mixed bag. Wiz also suggested using different textures on the "interior" parts, but with a map this size there's hardly any room to make distinctive areas without making things look out of place. So in this case I totally disagree. But it is a fact that i got lost for a minute when i played it and took me more than usual to understand it, more than in two thirds of the maps in the contest. Given the size of the map, that stands out, thats why i mentioned it. It is not important as it isn't a very big DM map, but i wanted to mention it nonetheless. About your comment on personality, you are going there for an extreme solution, and there is an infinite number of solutions between what you did and that extreme you mention. If you read the suggestions part i wrote, which is the part that matters, you'll see that i mention to give MORE personality to the rooms. How much, it's up to you. I agree with you on the idea about using different textures being no good, so maybe using an extra one for details like the red eagle or a trim could work for that. * "As rooms are similar, items placement doesn't matter too much and there is no special places with a concrete weapon in mind."- Yes it may look like that but make no mistake how much it matters in duel maps and how much time was actually spent on finetuning the placement with real play testing. There are so many things to consider that won't even be noticed without playing against an experienced human player: => which weapons are needed and available for the "down player" who's out of control, different routes to take and to time, the spreading of armors, the "weight" or pull factor of the Mega (in its current spot there are 4 directions to get it from), creating enough angles and opportunities for rocket splashdamage and rail peek-shots, enough cover, etc. etc. Replace ''as rooms are similar, items placement doesn't matter too much'' with ''as rooms are more similar than usual, item placement doesn't matter as much as in other maps'' and you'll get what i wanted to say. Again, its an interesting read. Have to agree at the first part of the second paragraph. you should add more to it and make a guide for mapping, or at least to explain the details of the map. I would be interested in reading that. EDIT: deleted all the parts about mapping talk to avoid even more misunderstandings.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 19, 2015 7:09:39 GMT -5
Ops, i almost forgot this post. Glad you are glad about them. About its size, i just simple applied the motto ''don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you''. I know that if the comment and suggestions are explained the mapper will understand them and doing it in 2 or 3 lines is impossible, and will appreciate the effort, that's why i went for a proper review. But they are far from complete, 20 maps are too much to review at once. Even though i think that two or three lines are a bit low, i said that when proposing the judges should give some feedback, because 2-3 lines multiplied by 5 judges makes for a lot of feedback. It is a pity it didn't worked out well. About me being a judge, that would be a bad idea, as my Gladexperience at playing DM maps its almost null, much less Quake 2's ones. For example, you can see that in all those reviews i barely talked about gameplay and flow aside from giving some blunt data, but barely any info or suggestions. If it were a SP or CTF contest i would give that and maybe consider about joining as a judge, but wasn't the case. And no, i am not a workaholic , but i tend to end like one, unfortunately. I tend to become overambitious with maps and don't manage well the time, and that ends in me doing lots of crunch work.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 17, 2015 12:41:51 GMT -5
Hello, folks!!! Here i have, the first future version of this map i promised five posts above, for your enjoyment. www.dropbox.com/s/klcwddy8uuq3ysp/coceq2dm01.zip?dl=0Some screenshots for comparison with the previous version. It's main changes are way improved lighting, and the addition of singleplayer/cooperative gameplay. It isn't a new map, but an improved version with many tweaks and additions. To summarize, it's what i planned for the contest if i had managed better my time. The singleplayer part is easier than i wanted it to be, due to not knowing the most common skill people has at singleplayer and that people usually tell me that i make maps too hard, but has support for different difficulty changes, so it should appeal to everyone. Haven't given much work to the singleplayer mode, i still don't know how the enemies work after so many years, much less the entities, so ts a bit basic in gameplay, but it has more than just placing enemies and items, its just that it isn't as polished as i wanted it to be. Changelog (0.e)
- Added a singleplayer mode. Two spawns for cooperative have been added. Support for the three difficulties have been provided. - Added more brushes to support singleplayer gameplay. - Added a chainfile for 3ZB2 bots. Now they should fight well on the map. Couldn't avoid them dying in the lasers but they do that way less. - Added both the sketches i made for the version for the contest and for this one. - Made the lighting brighter overall by tweaking all the sources of light in the map. Now should look as good at original engine's default brightness settings as Id maps. - Reworked the lighting that lights the crystals themselves and the light they emit so they look better in default brightness settings. Now should look glossy, like if they truly radiated light. - Added new sources of lighting everywhere: ambient lights, crystals and light textures. - Reworked the setpieces used for lighting for improvement in performance. Rounded them a bit also as they were a bit spiky. - Reworked the stairs near the BFG. - Reworked the brushwork at the floor of the base parts to improve cohesion. - Reworked the cave corridors for better movement and less feel of being in a maze. Also worked the floors so there is less probabilities of the player going to the crystals. - Improved the brushwork on the central cave. - Reworked the ceiling above the BFG and CG. - Added two more different sounds (eerie sound for the teleporter and wind), and spread the wind one all over the cave parts of the map with several target_speaker. - Reworked the target_speakers with the dripping sound. - Moved the ammo near the BFG and CG to improve flow. - Removed the step that made easier getting the RA. - Changed one pack of rockets near the RA for a large health pack. - Fixed several small glitchs and issues. For more details, the included text file. Feel free to give any advice or comment, as this isn't a a final version, and everything can be changed, and will, if i go by the plan i have. EDIT: by the way, does anyone knows why one can't get out of the water in singleplayer mode but can in multiplayer? That happened to me with the water in the central cave and made me lower it, so now its just there for the visuals.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 15, 2015 11:57:32 GMT -5
If you want a reference, the improved version of the map i sent to the contest, has right now more than 24000 faces before compiling and 4300 brushes. If i add 500 more brushes qbsp freezes on place, but maybe i have hit another limit.
Interesting to know there is a limit for brushes, i thought that the limits were in the output, not in the input, but forgot to think about the limits on compilers. I am still not accustomed to hit the limits on compilers, and Quake 2 is teaching me a lot in that regard.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 14, 2015 1:55:00 GMT -5
I actually really enjoyed this one. I thought it was one of the more creative and cohesive themes in this contest. I haven't had a chance to play it yet with humans, but I'm looking forward to it. Glad you enyojed it, Jaydolan. I expect that with players will be more enjoyable. If you do, please tell me how it went. I agree a bit with WizardExt on not being very suitable for DM gameplay, but more about the fact that it isn't for the most common type of Quake 2 DM gameplay, but my second future option i think will be more. I did indeed get inspired. I thought this entry was creative in its environment and interactive elements. I just didn't enjoy it considering a deathmatch environment. Really nice to see your intentions to iterate on it and also reading the thoughts/ideas/backstory/info of it. yes, it is normal to get inspired, the weirder something is the more inspiration one can get. It's hard to get inspiration from something one know already well. If you really want more of that kind of information, the text file that comes with the map has more on that. In this thread there is an explanation on how the map works, in that file there is the mapping story, plus known issues. If you are bored, it is a good read.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 13, 2015 16:43:25 GMT -5
It depends on the bots you are using, but in the bots i tried out till now, it was something that needed to be done with any text editor or in-game, not with a map editor. Check the text files that comes with the bot you use for instructions.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 13, 2015 16:41:09 GMT -5
Well, would be surprised at myself if for the first time you did the better one i ever saw ... Also, i can't name that a waterfall, for it to be that should be separated from the wall. Overall, looks on the same quality as the rest of the map, so don't worry.
About its disappearance, i can't find a reason, but seems to be related to engine issues, as so far it only disappears in Q2Pro. World brushes should be the last thing disappearing, and only saw that on maps with leaks, but your doesn't seems to have those.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 13, 2015 16:10:57 GMT -5
you have a good attention to detail, surprised me with the fifth screenshot. I wouldn't have done that much even if i wasn't so rushed at testing the maps. In fact saw some of those, but passed on reporting them in detail (and others i forgot), i wasn't into such precision, and mainly tired of testing. Took me a while to figure out the second and third ones. the third was easier, and from that could get the third. Also, if you want to check those kind of things, Margaal, there is more. Check the side of the platform of the elevator, or the broken tiles and the place where those tiles join the texture that surround the pad, or the top texture that surrounds the pad itself. The same happens in the pad the leads to the CG. On the floor on top of the hole of the first pad, if you look at the curve on the right, it is unaligned with the rest of the floor tiles. Also the place where the limit of the water with air is, on the small tiles texture, left of the pad. the texture on the side of the brush where the GA is placed on. the Some of those i pointed out i think that are more to blame to the texture itself than to brushwork, because the details they have aren't power of 2, making giving the brushes the perfect size harder. Well, it isn't exactly hard for this kind of things to happen in most maps, but i suppose you were this precise because it got the first place, and lacked the category in our eyes
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Post by cocerello on Apr 13, 2015 6:35:38 GMT -5
OK, found the way out of the water. And found also the small health packs on the bottom of the lowest water part. Interesting place to hide. What i didn't find is the waterfall itself, but there is the hole for it. Is it a model or something similar?
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