demondm21 - No Way Out

[DirtDemon [Q2C]]

After many tweaks I'm happy to say this map is finished.
It is the largest and most detailed map I've ever created.

Thanks for all the support here at the quake 2 cafe.



dirtdemon.servequake.com/maps/demondm21.zip



Original Post:

Greetings,

It's been some time since my last post so here's an update.
Progress on this map has gone very well. Too well as a matter of fact.
I've reached somewhat of a crossroads and I'm forced to make a decision.
My map has reached the max surfaces under normal Q2.

So do I finish it up or move forward? I don't want to overdue it,
but on the other hand I want to expand into the realm of KMQ2
and keep it going. It seems pointless to make 2 versions.

Any thoughts on this?

Here are some recent pics...

[knightmare]

That looks very, very impressive.

But KMQ2 doesn't directly increase the BSP-specific map limits (it focuses on overflows for models/sounds and max entities, and packet overflows). I've had an enhanced BSP format planned for years, but have been stymied by the lack of source code for ArghRad. I'll probably just go directly to supporting the Q3 BSP format instead.

There is instead a workaround of running qbsp3 with a larger -chop size of 1024 (automatic with KMQBSP3) to reduce subdivision of large faces. This will only work under certain engines, such as Quake2Evolved, KMQuake2, the unofficial v3.23 patch, and Quake2Max.

But the implementation of support for this large chop size is trivial, requiring just changing a number and recompiling the engine. This could easily be added to EGL, R1GL and APRQ2.

You could also try using func_walls (with caulk on non-visible faces) to reduce brush splits and the polygon count. See the Quake2 Polygon Count Reduction tutorial here.

[DirtDemon [Q2C]]

Thanks knightmare this is very useful info.

This map is so close to being finished, I have just a few more details to work out.
Next project I will focus more on the kmq2 engine from the start.

[Deleted]

Jan 21, 2013 21:11:21 GMT -5 DirtDemon [Q2C] said:

This map is so close to being finished, I have just a few more details to work out.
Next project I will focus more on the kmq2 engine from the start.

Your Map looks very neat and clean!, high quality! ( ).

And Yeah what can i say more..Models models models..
Kmq2 is the engine for me , new stuff with simplicity in mapping!.

And Knightmare is here ( active ) !.

[Le Ray [Q2C]]

Looks awesome DirtDemon! Thanks for sharing!

[DirtDemon [Q2C]]

Your Map looks very neat and clean!, high quality! ( ).

And Yeah what can i say more..Models models models..
Kmq2 is the engine for me , new stuff with simplicity in mapping!.

And Knightmare is here ( active ) !.

I owe you a lot of credit for beta testing, technical support and advise.
You have a good eye for the details. Thanks Mart!

...and Yes kmq2 all the way next time around.
Knightmare engine is the new standard in my opinion bringing this
old game to new life with fresh ideas.

Looks awesome DirtDemon! Thanks for sharing!

Le Ray it's nice to hear from you old friend!

[Deleted]

I owe you a lot of credit for beta testing, technical support and advise.
You have a good eye for the details. Thanks Mart!

You are welcome John!.

[Wixen1 [Q2C]]

Awesome DD, nice job.
-W1

[DirtDemon [Q2C]]

Thanks W1!

I did some testing last night...compiled the map with KMQBSP3 and the texture alignment went out of sync in several areas (it looks perfect in the editor).
I'm also trying to figure out why the teleporter particles disappeared when I lowered the entity just below the surface to hide the pad.
This trick used to work in the past.

So, I'm still working out some issues...

[Le Ray [Q2C]]

Man, I wish I still had time to map. One of the funniest things I've ever done. Just no spare time anymore. Good to see you too DD.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2013 7:28:21 GMT -5 DirtDemon [Q2C] said:

the texture alignment went out of sync in several areas
throughout the map. (looks perfect in editor)

This happened because you're up against the limit to max surfaces....
i had same problems with M21.... two or three poly cube away from max surfaces.....much trouble....

Problems, how to solve?..

I've also learned it from a good mapper ( still among us ).
Send me the bsp & map John ( Email ) I explain with screenshots with easy mapping tricks how solve problems.....

[Deleted]

One of the main issues I had when mapping years ago was the dreaded "ERROR: MAP HAS TOO MANY SURFACES".

I had to scrap around 3-4 1500+ brush maps because of that exact error, with no solutions. kolddm3 was plagued with it and I had to sacrifice detail in the map over getting the map released.

Even though func_walls help with brush splitting, they can also increase your r_speeds dramatically, so use wisely, even on things like support beams and light fittings. Unfortunately it didn't help with the surfaces error from personal experience.

I know a tradesman never blames his tools, but imo Quark was to blame for all the troubles I had. Despite it being feature rich & user friendly, its also very bloated & error ridden. Netradiant/QERadiant/Tread are far superior for Quake 2 mapping and this is coming from a ex Quark user.

Anyway, your current map looking very great. I'll look forward to seeing it.

[DirtDemon [Q2C]]

Jan 25, 2013 0:28:11 GMT -5 @growl said:

One of the main issues I had when mapping years ago was the dreaded "ERROR: MAP HAS TOO MANY SURFACES".

I had to scrap around 3-4 1500+ brush maps because of that exact error, with no solutions. kolddm3 was plagued with it and I had to sacrifice detail in the map over getting the map released.

Even though func_walls help with brush splitting, they can also increase your r_speeds dramatically, so use wisely, even on things like support beams and light fittings. Unfortunately it didn't help with the surfaces error from personal experience.

I know a tradesman never blames his tools, but imo Quark was to blame for all the troubles I had. Despite it being feature rich & user friendly, its also very bloated & error ridden. Netradiant/QERadiant/Tread are far superior for Quake 2 mapping and this is coming from a ex Quark user.

Anyway, your current map looking very great. I'll look forward to seeing it.

Thanks for your input! I learned to use Quark many years ago and it's the only editor I've ever used. In the old days, when I hosted servers, my mapping was not so good. I always struggled with compile times and tried to make smaller maps for players that download from the game.
However, with Quad core and this "New Age" of mapping it doesn't take long to get carried away.

Much more progress...
I found many ways to reduce poly count.
It's a slow process checking each wall and repairing textures.
Added some spotlights and smoke effects.
It's coming together real nice.

[knightmare]

Jan 25, 2013 0:28:11 GMT -5 @growl said:

Even though func_walls help with brush splitting, they can also increase your r_speeds dramatically, so use wisely, even on things like support beams and light fittings.

That's what caulk is for- it removes any face it's applied to, so the backfaces of the func_walls don't add to r_speeds.

[Deleted]

Much more progress...
I found many ways to reduce poly count.
It's a slow process checking each wall and repairing textures.

I am glad to hear that things are going well.