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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
--- Played the version for the contest, so i'll try to avoid talking about the lighting. ---Items found:
5x SSG, MG, 2x CG, 2x GL, HB, BG, ammo for each scattered around. yA, 14 armor shards 10x health packs, large health pack, 27x small health packs backpack Review:Medium sized ruined old stone themed with some base details in two floors. Brushwork is a mix between cubish and curves, with several details and broken parts, the mix of out of sunlight areas between the outdoor ones add a lot to the lighting. Textures are mostly well chosen and placed, and fit the theme with some exceptions. Layout is typical Margaal's trademark mainly 2D in two floors layout, with several variations in height mainly on the lower floor, some side areas, and variation in routes to take. Upper and lower floors are joined by fans angled to the destination and ladders. Any drop down can be countered with a ladder or fan very close by. Lighting looks to be in the middle of the three submitted maps, brightness wise. Combats are mainly in 2D with notable exceptions in the area with the yA and the backpack and in the joints between floors, with choice of routes and variety due to the difference in rooms. A weapon is placed on the player's spawn, and the rest are scattered all over the map, with a room with two of the three special items, and a BFG on a bit hidden place on another one. Seems to be geared for 4-8 or maybe 6-12, could work for both. a single chirping sounds can be heard. Solid decently compact map in an uncommon theme for Quake 2. Well deserved the first place amongst Margaal's submitted maps, Fixes some of the issues the other two have, but lacks some of what made those special, like the steps that lead to other places and one new routes from margaal26, that have been used way less but well here. The curves add a nice variety and dynamism to the brushwork and general look of the map. The textures are a bit of concern. Nice changes in height all over the map, but could have some steps in the indoor parts near the GL on top of a brush. Would be wonderful to have another room like the one with the yA and backpack, but one can't have everything in this life. Also the brushwork with some steps on the area on top and behind the backpack is a bit dubious. That rock doesn't look well in relation to the floor below and trim above. Feels a bit too constrained, boxy as a whole: probalbly a consecuence of a compact layout. Suggestions:- The stone texture has some noticiable tiling in a darker part, so it needs a change of texture or break the walls more, specially in the room with the CG and the nearby one, both above the watery one. Also the antenna that comes from margaal27 doesn't fit this map's theme. To fit it it would need more base based objects or textures. - Resize the windows on the room above the only large health pack in the map, to fit the texture. - Feels a bit too compact sometimes, one room or corridor that Feels that is out o it could be good, or add a side room or even an small dead end in a height higher than the highest ones. - Make one of the outdoor rooms way taller, to break the cage. Most important: the rocks and the uneven ground with the grass looks very good, but the movement on it makes me want to rage-quit. Not really, as there is no places to all to, and the steepness of it is barely noticeable, the inertia one gets is small. The problem is that there is barely terrain Quake 2 maps out there, so we aren't used to have that extra difficulty at movement control, so it becomes frustrating way quicker than it should. If that is a so big problem, then i can think that you felt the same on my first map, as the caves are the same or with even higher changes in height in the terrain. So, did you?
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:18:13 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found:
1 weapon of each type, ammo for all in ID maps like amounts GA, 2x yA, RA. 6x armor shards 2x health packs, 5x large health packs, MH, 6x small health packs Quad damage Review:
Solid very Quake 2 like medium sized map, heavily inspired by q2dm4 with some bits from q2dm5 and q2dm6. Very Id like in type and quality of brushwork with a mix of rockwork, base and lava, varied layout done in two floors with some side areas, with variety in classic solutions for going up and down in floors and heights (ramps, ladders and elevators, so it just lacks windpads and stairs to complete the pack), and plenty or places that stand out planned with what is placed in them in mind. A bit darker than q2dm4 overall brightness, with lots of what seems random use of colors on light textures. Variety in mainly 2D combats, half in rooms with some of them with some up-down combat, half in corridors. Item placement is quite good overall, well placed and with the characteristics of the items placed and the layout in mind, with some that could get a bit better. Small selection of well placed and chosen sounds. Solid very good map with a classic feeling and very influenced by q2dm4 in theme and ideas, with some bits from q2dm5 and q2dm6, one can clearly see Giftmatcher way of mapping here, with some of his own ideas and ideas that seem to be getting from some profesional layout maps i can't identify. This mapper seems to do maps in a technical way, but has the freshness of a non-experienced mapper too. Is a bit restricted in its verticality (only two floors), as ramps done that way don't add floors. If the player can't see easily the change in floor it isn't subconsciously noticed, so for the player to notice the change in floor, and the floors themselves should be visible on the same room, in a way that the ramp isn't a continuation of the floor in a room, more like a break of it. But don't misunderstand, its way better ramps done the way was used here than no change in heights at all. It has lots of interesting places, MG placement, BFG and yA area, GL placement, CG placement, some not good not bad (SSG and GA placement), and some a bit questionable ones or just not exactly good or special given the item there is (upper yA too near of the RG, MH, Quad). The added difficulty at obtaining the BFG or cross the room is perfect. RA placement is also good, and way better with the use of glass between it and the RL. The choice of colored lights seems a bit random: looks like it was made to make the map more colorful, which isn't bad by itself. Suggestions:- Make the map a bit brighter by turning some lights up (no general more brightness settings, please). - The yA near the RG is too close too it, that weapon is powerful enough without giving some medium tier armor. Change its placement with the GA for example. - Rockwork should look more like rocks, so don't make them on axis faces. Stray from on faces axis and geometry and go random with rockwork. Take a look at the outdoor room in Kitsune's map or spirit2dm3, or the ceilings of the cave corridors in my first map as an example. - Make some changes in height, just one step from time to time is good enough, your map is too 2D sometimes. Having used q2dm4 as a reference wasn't a so good idea, as its one of its flaws. This is difficult to do with Id textures, so i'll explain it in the next suggestion. - Separate the floor from the walls: right now, the floor is too dependent on where the walls goes, so you need to separate the floor from it. An example would be the corridors with stairs in my first map for the contest, where the main floor is separated by a canal-like brush from the walls, that gives me freedom in this case to use stairs on the grid with angled walls, and not depend on vertical walls with 64 or 128 in size.Another example would be to make the floor a bridge, and put something below (void, darkness, lava, slime, water, flowers, ...). Make it so the player can't reach what's below and you'll have the same room gameplay wise but you'll have more freedom on what to make on the walls. - Add another floor, even if it is a single room, and make it accessible only by teleporters/windpads/elevators as those are better at separating and defining floors than ramps/stairs/ladders, like the highest tower in WizardExt map, for example. Better if it is far away from the rest of the map, but not necessarily a place to snipe from, but should be visible from another places in the map so the player desires to reach it. This can be accentuated by placing a powerful item or something in need in that part of the map. - Give one or two of the indoor rooms more height. It isn't necessary to make that height make them connect other areas, as it is just to add variety to the map and give more personalty and character to the rooms to make them stand out more from the rest.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:15:39 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how it works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found:3x SG, 2x SSG, 2x MG, 1x CG, 2x GL, 2x RL, 1x HB, 1x RG 6x shell packs, 6x bullet packs, 4x grenades packs, 5x rockets packs GA, 2x yA, RA, 10x armor shards 5x health packs, 3x large health packs, MH, 16x small health packs Quad, silencer, bandolier, backpack Review:
Outdoor castle and village in the mountaintop/sky themed medium sized map. simple brushwork that fits the theme with some circular stairs and a very nice detail (a bell), good choice of textures with many unaligned and stretched textures, mainly 2d islands type's layout in two ''floors'', with some nice hidden details on that layout. Lighting between q2dm1 lower RL and MG in the indoor parts, very dependent overall of sunlight, but tweaked to get better shadows. combat mainly in 2D with options on approach with possibilities of some sniping, and bombarding from above. Items are spread all over the map, with planning behind their placement, and ammo usually near the weapons need it. Seems to be geared towards 8-16 players. Two sounds were used, and well used indeed. Liked the map for the theme and ideas used, apart from the sense of place, reward to exploration, and attention to give character in several parts, apart from the very nice detail of the bell and its sound attached every-time is hit. Also to note the attention to not stay on the same floor all the time with the stairs near the outside castle gate or the HB place, the shortcuts and hidden places, the attention to make the rock's top angles so the player doesn't go climbing everywhere, the blue cave and its layout, the use of small windows to get light inside, and the added option of going through the rooftops. On the other side the brushwork is kind of simple and flat, mainly on the rocks and castle's walls, the layout that the houses provide is kind of simple, and overall can be reduced to two islands conected and three side areas, but improves thanks to the added room on the rooftops and top of the castle's walls. The streets and around the building in general are a bit lonely, could use sonething more there, like the obvious crates. There is quite a number of stretched and misaligned textures, and there is some too dark parts, also the MH is in a good place tactically, but the door's frame can make getting to it frustrating. Apart from the areas where an extra work was added (stairs' areas and bell) the rest is quite simple. By the way, was the window on the MH's house intended to be used for sniping? If its that, good job. Suggestions:
- Tweak the lighting on the indoor parts, because as it is, most of the time is hard to know which side one has to turn to at each corner, so ou could add bigger windows or add a sourced light, for example. - Fix the unaligned/stretched textures. now that i remember are on the sides of the area with the exterior stairs (on the cliffs), on the entrance to the cave (and above it) on the citadel side, on the narrowest part of the pond, and several more. - Add some more intended gameplay on the rooftops, or give more grenades up there to spice things up more. - It was nice reaching the hidden area above the SSG and the SSG's placement itself, but a reward up there would be nice. Same with the shortcut to the exterior stairs, which apart from being hidden, the player has to take high risks to use it, so make the steps a bit bigger. - Add some changes in heights around the houses, even if small, just something like a terrain map, some ramps, or change the height of the paths, for example. - Use the houses as ways for layout, so get several of them, make a group for each, and play with them, rotate, move, copy, ... in the room you have, as now look a bit that they are there to fill the room there is. In short, their placement most of the times is a bit uninspired. - Don't hole the houses in Quake 2. NEVER. More like it is a bad idea, is that almost noone succeds at that, and i have seen dozens of attempts: A fast paced and fast movement videogame like this is the enemy of realistic brushwork and scale. For the inside of a house to work, it should have three or four times the scale, if not the player would get stuck everywhere most of the time, mainly on furniture and door's frames. Also, the fight between good flow and layout against realistic house's layout gives problems too. I would even advice you to seal the house where the MH is, as it is easy to get stuck or just move worse, due to the stairs and the door's frame.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:11:10 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found:
1 weapon of each type except BFG. Ammo for all those, and a backpack. GA, 2x yA, 6x armor shards 10x health packs, 10x large health packs, MH, 7x small health packs Review:
Colorful, solid and compact small to medium sized map. Good mainly cubish brushwork with lots of variety with cubishness and simplicity well hidden by textures and with some nice setpieces (and and pipes outside), textures used are very busy and colorful, with some nice pick for lights' textures. Layout is compact, in 2 and a half floors, with three elevators conecting the top with the middle and one to connect the bottom with the middle, the middle floor has lots of height changes in mainly stairs and ramps. Lighting is brighter than Id DM maps, but as the textures are dark, it becomes a bit darker than most q2dm1 indoor areas, light textures help at this, but grey textures counterbalance that. Combats are fast paced and with a mix of both vertical and horizontal types, with several sniping places, and tend to be longer than usual due to a high amount of health packs, even without considering the size of the map. looks to be geared towards 4-8 players. Five kinds of sounds have been placed: ans, wind, and 3 for machinery/computers. This is quite a solid compact map, with plenty of options to go and places to reach, with lots of different heights on the middle floor and things to do, several items placed on the sides on a different height to get at, some arguably texture choices, placement, and alignment, places to investigate and for adventure (fans, upper part), compact in item placement ( items per size of the map), harder to know and orient oneself than most due to too much everywhere, variety in rooms, nice details to look at (fans, outdoor) or to hear, some places to explore with reward on and a bit limited vertically, Suggestions:
- Add some more brightness on those light textures: as explained before the textures make the map a bit dark than recommended, so a little tweak is needed there. - Reduce the number of textures used, of give them some better reason for existing (a role) or use them only in an specific room, as they make the map chaotic at sight, and hard to recognize each room, adding more time to learn the map. Also you use several textures for elevators, making harder to know where and which they are. Go with just a few, and add rules on where they are used. Another option would be to give more character to each room. - There is some unaligned textures or don't go well where they are: the side of the stairs near the HB, or the side of the ramp near the GL, or example. - Less grey textures, as the grey they use is quite bland and has no character (no warm, no cool either) and looks like it comes from a black and white TV. - Add another floor, even if it is smaller than the bottom one, and connect it with an elevator/ladder: so many small ramps and stairs make it so its easier to make an interesting map with less floors, but gets old easily and disorient the player, like being in a roller coaster. or raise one part of the middle floor and connect it with an elevator. - Less items to make the map less busy. - Add a border or something to the floor on the bottom floor. - PLEASE, put higher the player spawns or hide them completely. As they are right now look like randomly unaligned brushes. - Add some brushwork at the bottom of the tunnels that fit the teleporter.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:09:20 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found:
One weapon of each kind, except BFG, plus a SG and RL 2x GA, yA, 4x armor shards 2x health packs, 2x large health packs, adrenaline, MH, bandolier, backpack Review:
Solid medium sized base map. Higher than Quake 2 level of brushwork, with several nice bits to add variety (brushes that go out, rotated or/and floating boxes, new teleporters, ... Good texture choices, alignment and use, mainly in a single main color, except some unaligned metal textures on the top of the map. More or less varied layout, variety in rooms with mainly ''corridorish'' rooms and no arena or central room, compact, changes in floors mainly with several ramps or stairs so its hard to define floors and given the number of connections between places, it get even more mixed, with some elevators, ladders and teleporters to spice thing up: to summarize, one could say it has two main floors. Lighting is good, contrasted, with variety, and around q2dm1 indoors in overall brightness or a bit higher. Combats are more horizontal than vertical, and keep a good balance. Looks to be geared toward 4-8 players. Only sounds that could be found were lava running, water running, and a different sound for the teleporters. Looks way better than the screenshots in the work in progress thread, as back then i though it was a bit flat, looked like it had a bit ''newbiesh'' brushwork, and was an advocate or adding another texture with another main color to add something that would stand out, but now i am doubting on that. Has lots of places to move at, places to investigate, the rooms are more or less the same in size, but thave personality enough to differentiate them apart fast and give them names (lava fall's room, slime's room, crates in lava's room, crusher's room, outdoor area, .... The layout is complicated enough but easy to understand. Has lots of nice brushwork details, but some aren't that easy to recognize (teleports and windpads). The textures are well used, and have roles distinctive enough to help the understanding of the map. Colored lighting was used well. Misses a bit some details on floor and ceiling but its OK. The lava fall doesn't look quite good. The selection of sounds is scarce. Suggestions:
- Make the outdoor area at least half a time bigger and spread a bit the items in there, as it feels rather constrained. - Make clearer what the teleporters are, maybe with a light in the middle or an effect/model/sprite. - Add another teleporter, even though i don't think it is needed gameplay and flow wise, two feel alone by themselves. If something new of this size is used, use it at least only once or more than two times. - Make the MH a bit harder to reach. - Add a sound for the crusher. - Put some more sounds in general. 2-3 more target speakers. - I would separate the two large health packs or put a third one.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:05:55 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found: One weapon of each type, except BFG, ammo for each one provided. GA, 2x yA, 8x armor shards 5x health packs, 3x large health packs, adrenaline, MH, 7x small health packs Review:Small sized sewers/base compact map with layout and theme from Quake custom DM mapping and brushwork from Quake 2. Brushwork around Id maps in quality and style, nothing special on there, nothing bad either. Textures have been well chosen, used and aligned, each with its own use and role, addding coherence to the map, which is strong. Layout is compact, with a good amount of connectivity, almost completely horizontal, in two flors, where their height makes the layout, more horizontal. Lighting is good, a bit bland maybe, overall around q2dm1 or a bit darker. Combats are very fast paced and horizontal, with not too much variations due to the similarity in type and size of the rooms. As rooms are similar, items placement doesn't matter too much and there is no special places with a concrete weapon in mind when mapping, but given how the map is, it is well placed and there is no issues. Looks to be geared to 4-6 players. Only heard one sound, near the MH. It seems to be a classical custom Quake map, in type of gameplay and layout. Quite simple in its planning and concept, relies on direct fast paced combats on an small map to be fun, no quirks, nothing that stands out, nothing to activate, nothing to search, no variations, no new ideas, no trickjumps involved, no windpads, no ladders. Just run and kill, simple and straightforward, only thing that it has apart from that is some elevators. Feels like an arena due to size. Even though it is small it takes more time than usual to learn it, due to the lack of character and personality in each room. Suggestions:- Add at least one more room, that stands out from the rest. - Give more personality to the rooms, they are very similar to each other. - Make the variations in height in each floor bigger to add more combat situations. - Give more tactical thought to the placement of the MH and adrenaline. - A bit more room to move on some parts wouldn't hurt the theme.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:03:46 GMT -5
For more general details, info on the story behind this and how this information works and how its made, go to:
leray.proboards.com/post/27943/thread
Items found:
One weapon of each type, except BFG 2x GA, yA, RA, 5x armor shards 4x large health packs, MH, 5x small health packs Review:Ruined palace? themed medium sized quite vertical map. Very simple brushwork that makes mainly corridors and vertical small in horizontal rooms, except the ruined parts and the RA area which have more work. Good choice and well aligned textures. Corridorish more vertical than horizontal layout with several windpads reliance on ramps, stairs, windpads and two teleporters to change floors and reliance on jumps to get to the hidden items. Lighting is a bit brighter than Id DM maps, and quite dull, as has low contrast. Combats happen between floors and in corridors, with variety of situations and chances for ambushes. Good solid map, looks almost like another custom Quake 3 map in everything. It has variety on connections, good exploration, vertical gameplay, sense on discovery the higher one goes (feels a bit like a singleplayer map in that regard), good scale and height between floors, a bit over-reliance on corridor up corridor down type of layout. It isn't always clear at first which direction one should take when taking windpads half the times. Lighting is a bit dull, and brushwork too simple in regard to having big walls, and those two issues joined make the map lack detail. Nice idea on RG placement. Good idea signaling the windpads route with lights, break a bit the theme, but are OK. Suggestions:- Add more contrast on lighting, maybe by blocking sunlight with brushwork here and there. - Add some details on the walls and floor or add some in-outs with brushwork to create shadows. - Add a bigger push on the windpads or change the angle a bit towards where the player should go from them. - Add some small changes in height here and there. - Add some side areas or dead ends, now the layout is too linear sometimes. - Give more personality to some of the parts of the map, like the one with the small health packs on the top.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 12, 2015 12:01:27 GMT -5
Argggggghhhhh! At last!!! I finished reviewing all the maps and writing feedback or them. I wanted to do this amd not delay it more so did crunch on this in three days and it is definitely tiring, after the tenth map had to get some rest, as it was becoming a bit frustrating, but i think it hasn't affected noticeably its quality. The bottom half of the ratings was more fun to review and write, as those have more ideas on them and the issues are easier to pinpoint, so felt like a breather, and more enthusiasm can be felt on the writings. ... The most boring to review ... probably the first two, as are in my eyes the most normal, as quality and polishment makes a map more fun to play, but not to review and rate.
The first paragraph of the review and the first part of the text are blunt data, as objective as possible. I notice thorough the years that this is missed a lot, just basic info on what kind of map is, its length, theme, which is very important ... so this last years i am including this. The second paragraph of the review is personal opinions. The third part, the suggestions, have or should have a reason on why i wrote them and details, as without them the mapper has to guess things out. I tried to respect the mapper choices on the flavor and character of the map when writing the suggestions, as a bad map is better than a soulless one, so no BIG changes in the base of the maps have been proposed or have been kept as optional. ONLy this third part has issues that i think that would be good to change in the map, so any negative feedback i give in the review part, i don't think it should be changed or i don't know how.
So, as a whole, this texts work for both the mapper and whichever want to choose a map to play.
The writings are a bit blunt, but its because i wrote as i felt, as roundabout ways aren't for me, i tend to be direct. I expect that you'll like reading them more than me writing them up, and above everything, comment and discuss them, as reviews and feedback without a discussion are only at half a way to be complete.
Going to post them now. Let's hope the computer doesn't break now, i wouldn't be able to do this again, mainly because i would hang myself in a mix of frustration, despair and rage.
I apologize in advance for the missing ''f'' and ''y'' in the texts. There's going to be lots.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 8, 2015 9:20:20 GMT -5
Recommended brightness settings:
- Intensity: 1 - Vid_gamma: 0.8-1 - Gl_modulate: 2.5 I thought the map was geared towards default brightness settings, but messed it up, so in reality it was tested with the aforementioned brightness settings. The good part, this map looks decent, even thought dark, in my CRT monitor with default brightness settings, so you can try that also. Also to note is that i use a CRT monitor, so you'll probably see the map brighter than me if you use TFT ones. Recommended number of players: 6-18, i think that it should work with almost any number except extreme ones, but i also think that probably the more the better. Items:
- 1 weapon of each type except RG - 2 packs of ammo for each weapon included, - 1 Quad damage - 8 ammo backpacks - 1 armor suit of each type - 1 MH - 22 health packs Map's explanation:The idea is so the players don't know where they are and aren't sure if they'll get the goodies they want. i made it so even i would have problems figuring that out so even i could play it the same way as a player, but it isn't too hard to figure how everything works out, as the teleports aren't random. The inspiration of this map came from some things i saw in some videogames: endless corridors or ring-shaped corridors where the player has to find the exit, and feel disoriented as all looks the same and don't remember where one entered in the area. As endless corridors are impossible in Quake 2, i went for a ring-shaped layout, and added the teleporters to confuse the player more, and to open the way for more areas as a 2D layout would be boring. The teleporters are there too because of the theme of the map: as i want to disorient the player, everything should look the same, so details were cut off, the floor is flat and the brushwork and layout are completely symmetrical. Even with these restrictions, i wanted to put a Quad as i think suits this map's gameplay, and i wanted to reuse an idea i had from another map i thought of making for this contest, that i got from CTF-Lavagiant in UT (the map in a shooter i played the most with friends by a huge margin), where one base is faster to enter and get the flag than to exit (red) and the other the opposite, takes longer to get to the flag than to exit (blue), so i made the Quad longer to get than to get out (drop down) of the area it is by placing it very high. The backpacks and brushwork steps are there as an optional way to exit that area and to make the teleporters in that tower easier to get. Future plans:Not much really. Mainly tweaks, at least till i get more feedback. - Improve the brushwork and lighting. Add some details. - Make the lighting look better in default brightness settings. - Add sounds. - Change some items, mainly the health packs. - Change the brushwork around the Quad. - Change the outermost part. - Make it a bit more compact. - Add some side areas. 2cocedm02 (my score: 1/10)Doesn't look bad.. but so confusing. Like OMG! Suggestions: I don't know. I felt as if I was tripping when playing this one. Then i achieved my objective with this map . The map was intended to be the most disorienting i could achieve without going overboard (flickering lights for example would be too much), with the current theme and ideas. I know that it is the complete opposite of what is done in the rest of maps, but that is its charm and character. without it would be another plain map. By the way, i don't get why you said that about tripping, could you explain it more?
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Post by cocerello on Apr 8, 2015 8:23:38 GMT -5
Thank you very much Null!! I was waiting for this.
For now i have put some comments for my maps ans an answer for WizardExt's feedback. Next will be playing all the maps in the contest and comment them. It is going to be a busy and fun day!!! If the day and my free time are long enough.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 8, 2015 8:12:14 GMT -5
Recommended brightness settings:- Intensity: 1 - Vid_gamma: 0.8-1 - Gl_modulate: 2.5-3 I thought the map was geared towards default brightness settings, but messed it up, so in reality it was tested with the aforementioned brightness settings. Also to note is that i use a CRT monitor, so you'll probably see the map brighter than me if you use TFT ones. Recommended number of players:6-12 Items:- 1 weapon of each type except RG, one extra RL hidden - 4 packs of ammo for each weapon included, except shells and rockets, which are 6 - 1 ammo backpack - 6 silencers - 1 armor suit of each type - 7+7+6 armor shards - 1 MH - 10 health packs - 7x4 small health packs Map's explanation:This map can be summarized and explained this way: an arena with an extra secret area with the bigger weapons. The rest is just the means to get to the arena or an introduction for the map. The idea of this map was to keep the player on the central cave section, on a fight for whoever is able to reach the third part, so the gameplay was intended to be: be the first to get to the third part, and stop the rest from doing so, the rest of the map is secondary, as a way to keep the players rotating from one area to the next, hence why the player can't go back to the previous area. The CA is there so the player has another option when taking the central elevator: get to the bigger weapons or disregard that opportunity to jump for the armor and extra ammo. That's why there is no health on the first section and barely any other item, no items on the caves from the elevators to the central part except the secret rocket launcher, lots and variety of items on the central cave, and a low quantity of health packs and the bigger weapons with ammo nearby on the third part. To help this, and because i love traps, i included lasers to reduce the chances someone with the biggest weapons hunts or camps other players. The idea is: i have the SG or just grenades and a guy with a bigger weapon comes for me. Press the button, activate the lasers and stop him in his tracks and leave the area while laughing at him. I knew from the beginning this would be an issue, so i reduced their importance in the map by lowering the damage, and make it so the player can go through them without being harmed at all in at least 3 ways that don't involve trickjumps. Thought of removing them after seeing 3zb bots get killed at them all the time (also because they avoided the elevators like if they were the black death), but after making a chain file the map works well with bots. I'll upload the file later, sorry it wasn't included in the pack. Future plans:I have three options in mind: - Tweak this map as it is, mainly lighting and smalls improvements to flow, and getting rid of those bad looking stairs that are shown on the second and third screenshots. Adding a chain file for 3zb2 bots as without it they play sillily, getting glued at the walls in a room without getting out of it till another bot shows up. - Making the map more compact: get rid or reduce a lot all the corridors, including those parts of the cave that lead to the central part, while changing the brushwork style a bit so this is possible or at least easier to do. - Redo the map completely while keeping the layout, the theme and main ideas. Have several versions for this on paper already. The first one is almost done, the second one will probably come soon, but i am not sure about the third. It will probably end consuming too much time and it will probably become a different map. 2cocedm01 (my score: 2/10)Frustrating gameplay. Beams, elevators, isolated areas, maze-like at times. Feels singleplayer more than deathmatch. In some weird way though.. I got inspired. It's well built, just not suited for deathmatch. Suggestions: Too dark. Connect areas better, don't have them completely separated. Remove beams. First of all, thanks for the fast feedback, and glad you got inspired from it in a weird way, my maps are always weird, always an experiment on new ideas. Second, about you have said, i understand the reason for most of it, but have some doubts, for example about why is frustrating for you (my guess is that it is about the lasers and the areas without nothing to do (cave corridors)), and why the elevators are a bad idea (maybe because they make the layout one way only and add more time to the already long way to the center cave). Most of the issues you point out are mainly because i became obsessed with r_speeds and about keeping the visdata as low as possible as i was close to reach the limit for visdata, that's why for example the caves are so labyrinthine and there is so large corridors everywhere. I knew them from the beginning, so for the tweaked version i am working, i already reduced most of those issues a lot. For singleplayer probably wouldn't work too. I though about adding gameplay for it but it wasn't that easy to pull due to the layout. But the map is indeed singleplayer-like, because it has one-way very directional layout and an introduction to the players. Not that it is a surprise, as i said in another thread, i map in any shooter mainly for singleplayer, and about DM maps, i have only released, and it was recently, three small arenas for Quake made back in 199x. What i won't change is keeping the better weapons in an area apart, as its a main part of the map. Though about change the MH for a teleporter, but that way everyone would be able to reach it easily, and there wouldn't be much of a point keeping that area isolated.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 6, 2015 15:22:07 GMT -5
Eh? That was one of the ideas i tried, so i ran over the same teleporter a dozen times to test it and all of them i was teleported to the same destination. Going to test it again, maybe i made a mistake due to deadline's pressure, who knows. Anyway, thanks.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 6, 2015 10:42:08 GMT -5
It's not that tiling is hard to pull off as that's something that depends mainly on the chosen texture, is that most of the textures that come with Id used for Quake 2 are VERY bad at it, except those made of tiles or tile-like structures and some others.
I went into a bit of off-topic there, as your map doesn't rely on them, as far as i can tell.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 6, 2015 10:09:32 GMT -5
The easy way in any videogame would be to place the info_player_deathmatch on top of the items you want to give the player, and place them on a place that can't be reached by the player by normal means. For example, make him spawn on the top of a vertical tunnel and make the items stay on place by placing them atop a tiny brush 1x1x1 in size, moving the items and the brush to a side so the player can't collide with the brushes. A better way would be involved to info_notnull use. I know some ways of hacking in Quake that work for that, but no idea if they work for Quake 2. For example: www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=13653&end=13653Will try that Mikemc, if it reacts to brush entities it works, but i have seen weird behaviors when blocking it sometimes but still teleports, like for example on spiritdm3, the teleport that helps you get close to the red armor. And yes i couldn't stop myself from testing at least one map, shame on me after saying i would withstand the urges.
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Post by cocerello on Apr 6, 2015 6:13:52 GMT -5
So, finally took a good look at the scores, it is a good amount of information, but they are more or less what i expected them to be so there is no general surprise. Actually, should feel more accomplishment, as these two are the fourth and fifth deathmatch maps i ever have done (the first three were just one room arenas for Quake done back on 199x. The only surprise i got from the ratings was that no judge rated differently from each other of the two maps the sounds part, i suppose that the sounds that come by default from the teleporters and that they are spread all over the map hid the fact that no sounds were used on the second map. On the offtopic side: I plan to give feedback and comments, but those will come later, when we get the individual threads for each map like in previous contests, so everything is in place neatly organized and not a chaos in one thread, but it depends on how much i can withstand the urges to write that up. It's hard to keep the beast restrained, but i'll do my best effort. So, for that reason, I have downloaded the map bundle but i am prohibiting myself from playing them, to keep the hype within warm and fresh and do everything (playing them, writing feedback and posting) it in one go. For the same reasons again i'll keep my answers and thanks to WizardExt for his feedback for when that time comes. Also, i am refraining myself from answering your PM, Null, till that time. And to finish, i am planning to explain what a bit the maps, how they work and how i thought them, and what i am planning to improve them, but as the rest of the plan, that's for when the individual threads are opened. then randomly teleport to to a spawn point in the map. I completely messed up the entity links and two hours before the contest ended places weapons & spawn points. So, originally, each player would have one weapon when entering the map & only get new weapons by picking them up from dead players. How did you achieve that, Thehappyfriar? I tried to randomize the teleporters in 2cocedm02 to make it even more chaotic and disorienting but didn't found a way an the deadline was drawing closer, so i discarded the idea.
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